EHM The Blue Line

archibalduk wrote:Wow, that's a pretty terrible offer. You're effectively paying for an iron on badge and some meagre discount on various items - provided them make it to next season...

Funny that the two teams that Red Hockey bought-into are now struggling financially? Seems to have been a bit of a poisoned-chalice for the clubs aside from Telford and the recent offer to sell the Manchester shares back aside from a minority share makes me think Red Hockey have over-stretched themselves!

In fairness, I think we wouldn't have Manchester or Bracknell in the league this season had it not been for Red Hockey. They were both in extremely difficult positions last summer. Red Hockey came in and bought shares in both teams to give them some cash. But unfortunately the Deeside move has really harmed Manchester and Bracknell has suffered from numerous rink problems. From the recent press releases, it seems both teams are suffering from cashflow issues as a direct result. Red Hockey's offer to sell the shares back to Manchester is actually a way to help them generate more cash (as least in theory). For example, let's say Red Hockey paid £20,000 for a 40% share in the team's shares (obviously I'm plucking numbers out of the air!). If they sell those shares back to Manchester for £5,000 then Manchester will have effectively made a £15,000 profit. If they can sell those shares to another investor for £20,000 then they will have made a further £20,000 on top. Of course I cannot imagine anybody other than Red Hockey who would want to invest in these teams so I don't know realistically what selling the shares back will achieve because, although Manchester will be making a profit, they'll still be shelling out money to buy them back.

Btw, I just placed my order for a game worn Bakrlik jersey - and for about half the price as the own and loan jerseys. The Bees' chairman has been extremely helpful.

That's the key thing there: if they can re-sell those shares...otherwise it's just Red Hockey cutting their losses.

It's a shame, got no love for the Phoenix really, but even I felt sorry for them turning up to MK with 15 players dressed? Amazed Tony Hand hasn't 'un-retired', even if he can't live up to past glories!

I honestly thought that Red Hockey were looking at taking Telford to the Elite League and having Manchester as their 'chosen' team in the Premier League? Instead the investment seems to have contributed to the Silver-blades bust-up and them losing the rink. Got to wonder if they'd still be playing in Altrincham if Red Hockey hadn't got involved in the first place?

That said we can't hang all the blame on them. The fact that Bracknell are still in trouble after their 'bailout' last season points to them having deeper problems financially than can be solved by Red Hockey. They put together a fantastic squad but maybe they should have cut their cloth accordingly? Mind you I'm sure most clubs operate to very fine margins and not just the two in trouble at the moment.

I love the fact that a pretend, fantasy, supposed hockey league has 10 pages of posts for this season and the NHL has only 6.

I don't think the investment from Red Hockey necessarily caused them to lose their rink at Altrincham. It seems (allegedly) Planet Ice had accidentally not invoiced them for something like ice time for a while and, when they came to realise, Manchester wouldn't pay. And then there's question marks over the allegation that Manchester were taking money from junior players and not using it as intended.

Flames are giving the Tigers a real thrashing tonight. We're 5-1 up at Telford's rink at the end of the second. And after the Tigers lost 7-0 last night to the Bison...

batdad wrote:I love the fact that a pretend, fantasy, supposed hockey league has 10 pages of posts for this season and the NHL has only 6.

Hehe I love it!

batdad wrote:I love the fact that a pretend, fantasy, supposed hockey league has 10 pages of posts for this season and the NHL has only 6.

And we're not even discussing the top division! #passion #mad

Wow 7-2 to the Flames. Tigers seem to be in some real difficulty at the moment (even more difficulty than us!...). Piatak is on fire at the moment!

archibalduk wrote:I don't think the investment from Red Hockey necessarily caused them to lose their rink at Altrincham. It seems (allegedly) Planet Ice had accidentally not invoiced them for something like ice time for a while and, when they came to realise, Manchester wouldn't pay. And then there's question marks over the allegation that Manchester were taking money from junior players and not using it as intended.

I think once the Red Hockey investment was announced, there was no chance of Phoenix staying in Altrincham as PI/SB don't like Red Hockey.

Scholes selling his shares (I'm assuming for a nominal fee, e.g. 1p) suggests to me that he's cutting his losses with his investment and was unwilling to provide addition funds to the club. I think a lot of Bees/Phoenix fans expected him to be a bit of a cash machine.

Tigers are struggling at the minute as well. Red Hockey teams not doing well at the minute. At least Deeside appear to be doing well

batdad wrote:I love the fact that a pretend, fantasy, supposed hockey league has 10 pages of posts for this season and the NHL has only 6.

Get out

Confirmed by Neil Morris on twitter that basically Scholes pulled out funding and has left them in the lurch...

marksbros6 wrote:

batdad wrote:I love the fact that a pretend, fantasy, supposed hockey league has 10 pages of posts for this season and the NHL has only 6.

And we're not even discussing the top division! #passion #mad

There is a top division? Is the top division better than the bottom division? But of course, the British have a caste system for their hockey leagues, so not likely better, just more money.


Tonight's match: Whispering Meadow United vs Wallowing Fiddlesticks City.

To be fair, at least 5 of the 10 pages have been spent discussing the dodgy business practices of the owners and which one will go bust this week.

Apparently Neil Morris was in tears on the ice addressing the fans in the 2nd period break. Sounds as though Red Hockey stopped funding 6 weeks ago and he's been paying out of his own pocket to keep the club going. They haven't even had enough money for practice.

What a mess

Yeah, and three of the pages in the NHL thread are about how Florida, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Arizona and the flavour of the day need to move because of horrible business practices and inability to put butts in the seats.

So..yeah...no matter how bad the hockey....or how good the hockey (speak for yourself Vancouver....cause you suck!) the discussions off the ice are one in the same.


Unless of course you are talking about Brendan Prust sticking Brad the rat Marchand in the mid section and saying it was the best $5K he ever spent. $5K buys a couple of poor chaps who think hockey is a gentleman's sport a stick or two in England I am sure.


Alright, enough from me...back to your regularly scheduled discussion of what I see in EHM is 20000 hockey teams in England. Anyone think maybe, just maybe that is too many leagues and teams?

batdad wrote:Yeah, and three of the pages in the NHL thread are about how Florida, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Arizona and the flavour of the day need to move because of horrible business practices and inability to put butts in the seats.

So..yeah...no matter how bad the hockey....or how good the hockey (speak for yourself Vancouver....cause you suck!) the discussions off the ice are one in the same.


Unless of course you are talking about Brendan Prust sticking Brad the rat Marchand in the mid section and saying it was the best $5K he ever spent. $5K buys a couple of poor chaps who think hockey is a gentleman's sport a stick or two in England I am sure.


Alright, enough from me...back to your regularly scheduled discussion of what I see in EHM is 20000 hockey teams in England. Anyone think maybe, just maybe that is too many leagues and teams?

I was quite happy to see the National Leagues in batdad. In all seriousness I'm sure there are lots of hardcore fans who weren't represtented int the 20 or so UK teams in the game already, who are now potential 'sales' now they can play as their team.

On the other hand I spent last night going through the NIHL sides just updating the team colours...based on that I'd be more inclined to agree with you!

Tom Annetts from Bracknell to Oxford City Stars! Can't wait for my next Stars game now, they've had two decent young netminders this season but he'll be a big upgrade!

Things looking grim for Bracknell (though to be fair a netminder isn't so bad, they can surely just have one of the juniors step up as cover to Mettam). Also...not quite as grim as things look for Manchester Phoenix! Quite the ding-dong going on over at the Hockey forum, what are your thoughts on it Calv?

I've lost count of the number of times people have used the word "ego" or "smoke and mirrors" on THF!

I think it is going to be very close for Phoenix and I don't see how they'll afford a new rink in Manchester. Wayne Scholes claims he spent a six figure sum investing in Bracknell and Manchester. He is still going to contribute towards the cost of the new rink. But if approx £50k was not enough for Phoenix to last even half a season, how can they rely just on the supporters' trust to get through the rest of the season and also afford the new rink?! They'll surely have to do what Slough did in the EPL and become a pay to play team.

Don't get it myself mate?

They should have taken a page out of MK's playbook and looked at setting up a small, volunteer-led temporary rink in Manchester-proper maybe. I saw the MKICE facility that Thunder and the Juniors were playing out of for a while and it was a decent little facility set up in an old Waitrose store in the city-centre where I grew up. If the Phoenix had got their act together to do something similar (providing they do have all the equipment they say they have) then they could have found a facility by now I'm sure.

On the other side of the coin am psyched for Annetts coming to Oxford from Bracknell!

Edit: this is in response to archi's post, I started it a while ago but got distracted...

Those are my thoughts too, if the figure of Red investing an extra 400% is true (I thought maybe there was one too many 0's?) then I cannot see how they will last without further investment from an external source. I'd also like to know how they are financing the temporary rink, they claimed they already own all of the equipment necessary but if this is owned by Phoenix then I think it is wrong to ask fans to donate (quite a lot of) money for very little return if they have assets that they can sell.

It's a bit too early to say whether any rink will happen next year, as there's been very little detail released and what has been released has tended to change over time. However, I am naturally sceptical about ice rinks in the UK actually getting built, there's been plenty over the years that have not materialised or never made it beyond an idea. Look at Altair, I remember that being announced when Phoenix initially moved to Altrincham and it looked very nice and shiny but 10 years later on and it's still not been built, and the current plan looks like a very scaled down version.

The latest podcast suggests the club will be surviving month by month, which sounds to me as though the fan donations will last them through December but they'll be back to square 1 again in January.

Given the amount of investment required by Red Hockey to survive the season, its difficult to see them lasting the season.

This season has so far shown how little ever changes in British hockey, owners fall out with each other and clubs are constantly in a financial mess.

In terms of rinks being built the Leeds one has been 'earmarked' and 'being built' for years but only just broken ground from my last trip up there so you're right on that count Calv.

Latest from Red Hockey here: http://www.redhockeyuk.com/statement-co ... r-phoenix/

I can't get my head around how RH are spending all of this money on Manchester. Where is the corporate benefit for RH?... Directors of a company are under a duty to promote the best interests of the company and I cannot see how apparently throwing all of this money away is of benefit to Red Hockey. I hope they manage to sort this mess out because Manchester cannot realistically go on like this in the long term.

On another note, my game-worn Bakrlik jersey arrived. It's absolutely massive, however - triple XL! There's enough room for four of me in there. Still, I'll probably wear it for the EIHL Playoffs.

That's a level of X-tra bigger than fits me!

Are they very different quality to the replicas on offer Arch?

I get the sudden urge to know what's happening in Bracknell!

archibalduk wrote:Latest from Red Hockey here: http://www.redhockeyuk.com/statement-co ... r-phoenix/

I can't get my head around how RH are spending all of this money on Manchester. Where is the corporate benefit for RH?... Directors of a company are under a duty to promote the best interests of the company and I cannot see how apparently throwing all of this money away is of benefit to Red Hockey. I hope they manage to sort this mess out because Manchester cannot realistically go on like this in the long term.

On another note, my game-worn Bakrlik jersey arrived. It's absolutely massive, however - triple XL! There's enough room for four of me in there. Still, I'll probably wear it for the EIHL Playoffs.

Nice jersey archi!

This whole situation with RH is very confusing yeah. Why would any company just throw money into teams with zero return (other than in the KHL ) saying they have put "six figures" into the Phoenix... yet they are now begging for donations?!

One thing I'd like to know though, without meaning it in any bad way, what the hell is Tony Hand doing to his coaching career? He must be the most loyal coach ever. He should have moved on by now! I heard many years ago he was on around £1,000 per week? If that is remotely true, or if he's on more... they could do with him moving on!

It would not surprise me if Tony Hand was on a large wage and I'm guessing he has his travel covered as well as he still lives in Edinburgh and comes down for training/games. If Phoenix really wanted to cut costs I think they'd release him and have a player coach (Mark Thomas was player coach for the Telford game when Hand was in Edinburgh when his jersey got retired). Given that Neil Morris & Tony Hand appear to be very good friends, I don't see this happening.

Have to say this is a very disappointing decision: http://www.eliteleague.co.uk/marsh-ban- ... two-games/ I thought that 5 games was probably correct and sent a message out. To reduce that by 60% is poor imo.

And finally, these are some very interesting christmas jerseys: http://www.sheffieldsteelers.co.uk/hot- ... mas-shirt/ Each player has their own caricature on the front of their jersey!

marksbros6 wrote:That's a level of X-tra bigger than fits me!

Are they very different quality to the replicas on offer Arch?

I don't think so. It's still laser printed and I can't say it's any better quality than my Flames or Storm jerseys (both of which are stitched). The only advantage is that Bakrlik has likely scored, fought and checked wearing my very jersey!

My brother won a game worn Phoenix jersey around 8 or 9 years ago and, although it was large, I'm not sure it was triple XL!