EHM The Blue Line

Cannot seem to get to the Second game of the season without it crashing every time

The previous version I got half way through the season... Before the up date...

archibalduk wrote:Yeah the OOTP Forum has really quietened down. There's still a lot that frustrates me about that forum and I tend to avoid it and just concentrate on the data and bugs forums. That thread about the face pack file name conventions really bugs me. I know the present format is a little unwieldy, but it's not that bad and it has worked fine for EHM over these past 9 years. A lot of the criticism seems to be coming from those who don't even create facepacks! I can't fault Jeff for taking the time out to deal with threads like that.

This is bound to happen.

Most everyone here on TBL are die-hard EHMers at some level or else you wouldn't be here. Some of the names on here and other places I recognize a bit from before there even was an NHL:EHM and it was just the freeware. Some of us have been doing this hockey management sim thing for over a decade now, with one specific series (the only series really). I know I saw Pommpie posted a very Pommpie-esque post over on the FHM forums (a very, very longtime regular over on FHockey.com with the freeware EHM, I was in a freeware league with him and I know he commished another popular EHM league). Jan Smetana I see is over on the OOTP/FHM forums. He helped create the original freeware EHM's rosters, and then update them the first handful of times. So he was around for the development of the freeware EHM even back in 2000, 2001, 2002. To say some of us are "entrenched" is an understatement. This was actually a problem with the jump from freeware to SI with EHM even, in that SI was entrenched a certain way of doing things with their soccer sims and if you weren't already and avid CM/FM fan quite honestly some of those ways seemed incredibly dumb/needlessly complicated (remember the absolute Holy Wars™ over the 1-20 vs 1-100 attribute systems when the first NHL:EHM hit??).

Now enter OOTP. They have a completely different userbase and crowd, who are used to doing things a certain way, for a completely different sport. The hardcore OOTP userbase isn't going to like some of the things FHM does because it's not an exact replica of OOTP, or because they don't know hockey or hockey management sims. The other userbase (us, those with good experience already in hockey management sims) have other, completely different expectations based upon what we've already experienced and played.

So the facepack thing in particular strikes me as some people trying to reinvent the wheel simply because they didn't realize it was already invented and dealt with years ago. In particular the OOTP crowd is going to be a little "spoiled" even because they have never faced the challenges of a hardcoded, closed game like we have with EHM -- we've figured out some darn ingenious ways to keep the series current and relevant. *shrug*

And trust me, this is only the start of it, it won't be the end... just wait until the game comes out of beta.

Those whiners can all go to hell if you ask me!

Philou--Find your own meme.

And yeah...it is going to be interesting when the final version comes out...and you know...OOTP starts advertising the game. Oh and when mgsports and his friends show up.....wait? did that happen already?

i think the picture thing should be done so that all the players show up wearing St. Louis blues uni's. That would save a lot of time when re-arranging the DB to an all Blues universe.

Great idea. I second the motion. Archi can you put everyone in a Blues jersey please?


Also...it makes it so much easier when you trade them all to St Louis to have them in their uniform already.

My own meme?!? Is this supposed to be "batdad cheezy sentence"?? You better put a copyright on that!

WIKIPEDIA: A meme (pron.: /ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate and respond to selective pressures.[3]

Not mine,...probably stole it from someone. Whining about whiners, complaining about complainers. And now it is spreading...to you and a few others from me. So just telling you to start your own one as a joke. ON this site I am the grumpy old fool who tells other people to quit complaining. You are following in my footsteps...young jedi.

Young jedi hahaha! Be indifferent to something isn't be grumpy about it! I just don't think the "carrying cultural ideas" is a good description of your complaints.

Sure it is. Bitching about complainers is part of the culture here. I started it.

Back on topic: FHM ....yeah I got nothng.

<------- Back on topic then.

So I broke down and preordered. Couple things I've noticed:

* Man this runs slow, just even clicking around. Is that just me, or is this early beta just that clunky yet? I'm on a dual-core Athlon 2.5Ghz with 2GB RAM. I'm not swimming in system opulence, but I wouldn't call my system low-level either, s'why I'm wondering...
* I'm getting clicks that don't register. About half of them. Just me, or common?
* Commish mode is interesting. Is that a staple feature that will remain? That could be awesome (Commish Mode!) or terrible (because I can't keep my hands off tweaking/messing with things constantly!).
* Definitely see some UI tweaking needed to streamline. Some things should be available on right-click for the roster that aren't (like Add to Trade and Scout). Not gonna' crucify the game over it, EHM had the same problem originally. But needs to be noted.
* UI needs cleaning up in Windowed mode at least, text clipping off the sides/edges in some spots. I know that's been brought up before though.
* Maaaaannnnnn there is a steep learning curve to get around at first. Can't decide if an extra button at the top would help this or not...

I'm surprised it runs slow for you. Is it with regards to simming or is it only if you do certain things? For example, the game seems to temporarily freeze when you try to access things like the FA list.

Adding the facepack to the game slows things down in relation to creating and loading games. Other than that, it runs okay for me.

My experience of the UI is identical to yours. I know my way around having played the game for quite a long time now, but it really is very cumbersome. I know the devs plan to clean it all up and so hopefully it'll look a lot nicer and work a lot better by September. My only concern is that I doubt they'll want to deviate too far from OOTP's layout. I have no problem with that per se, but I think it must be kept in mind that the menu design has to be adapted to the game - you can't really adapt the game to the menu. I.e. I think the menu should be built around the game rather than having an identical OOTP menu set in stone.

It's the number of clicks it takes to get to certain screens which is my biggest problem with the UI. The UI in general isn't as pretty as other games, but that's not a problem for me. So long as the gameplay is there, I don't really care whether the game is pretty or not. The usability / ease of use, however, is something that is really important to me (and probably makes or breaks whether or not new users will get into the game). Take, for example, how many clicks it takes to view a roster of a team not in your league:

For the sake of this example, let's say you're coaching the NY Rangers and you want to view the roster of the Barrie Colts:

Click #1: Click on the League Menu button.
Click #2: Click on the drop-down menu with the list of leagues.
Click #3: Hover your mouse over Canada and click on OHL from the sub-sub menu.
Click #4: Click on League Standings.
Click #5: Click on Barrie Colts.

For those new to the game who might not think of accessing a team roster via the standings screen, then the number of clicks would probably look like this:

Click #1: Click on the League Menu button.
Click #2: Click on the drop-down menu with the list of leagues.
Click #3: Hover your mouse over Canada and click on OHL from the sub-sub menu.
Click #4: Click on the Team Menu.
Click #5: Click on the drop-down menu with the list of teams.
Click #6: Click on Barrie Colts.
Click #7: Click on Roster Overview.

Compare this with EHM 2007:

Click #1: Click on the World button from the horizontal menu.
Click #2: Hover your mouse over Leagues -> Hover your mouse over Canada -> Click on OHL (this takes you to the League Standings screen).
Click #3: Click on Barrie Colts.

Alternatively:

Click #1: Click on the Search Box. Type "Barrie" and press Enter.
Click #2: Click on Barrie Colts.

I'm not saying I think FHM should do it like EHM 2007. FHM is its own game in its own right - it's not an EHM clone (nor should it be IMO). What I'm saying is that it is possible to make it quicker and easier than 5 or 7 clicks to access important screens, such as roster screens.

Primis wrote:So I broke down and preordered. Couple things I've noticed:

* Man this runs slow, just even clicking around. Is that just me, or is this early beta just that clunky yet? I'm on a dual-core Athlon 2.5Ghz with 2GB RAM. I'm not swimming in system opulence, but I wouldn't call my system low-level either, s'why I'm wondering...
* I'm getting clicks that don't register. About half of them. Just me, or common?
* Commish mode is interesting. Is that a staple feature that will remain? That could be awesome (Commish Mode!) or terrible (because I can't keep my hands off tweaking/messing with things constantly!).
* Definitely see some UI tweaking needed to streamline. Some things should be available on right-click for the roster that aren't (like Add to Trade and Scout). Not gonna' crucify the game over it, EHM had the same problem originally. But needs to be noted.
* UI needs cleaning up in Windowed mode at least, text clipping off the sides/edges in some spots. I know that's been brought up before though.
* Maaaaannnnnn there is a steep learning curve to get around at first. Can't decide if an extra button at the top would help this or not...

I have many of the same problems. Somewhat slow. clicks don't register and click again a time or 2 and crash. Cumbersome, doesn't feel like I'm part of the game at all. I just let it sim and usually don't do anything as it seems like nothing I do matters.
IMO, it is a really long way from taking me away from EHM. Good thing it's still a beta. Scary thing is how good it still makes EHM look in spite of its issues.

archibalduk wrote:I'm surprised it runs slow for you. Is it with regards to simming or is it only if you do certain things? For example, the game seems to temporarily freeze when you try to access things like the FA list.

I've simmed all of maybe three offseason days so far. No it's the navigation. And not when it needs to calculate and load a screen, it's just loading normal screens. It's the same in Normal and Historical modes (have fiddled around in both). I have nothing else open except 1 tab of Chrome either.

archibalduk wrote:Adding the facepack to the game slows things down in relation to creating and loading games. Other than that, it runs okay for me.

I haven't added the facepack, just the logos (it's amazing how less ugly the UI looks once you put in the logos BTW).

archibalduk wrote:My experience of the UI is identical to yours. I know my way around having played the game for quite a long time now, but it really is very cumbersome. I know the devs plan to clean it all up and so hopefully it'll look a lot nicer and work a lot better by September. My only concern is that I doubt they'll want to deviate too far from OOTP's layout. I have no problem with that per se, but I think it must be kept in mind that the menu design has to be adapted to the game - you can't really adapt the game to the menu. I.e. I think the menu should be built around the game rather than having an identical OOTP menu set in stone.

It's the number of clicks it takes to get to certain screens which is my biggest problem with the UI. The UI in general isn't as pretty as other games, but that's not a problem for me. So long as the gameplay is there, I don't really care whether the game is pretty or not. The usability / ease of use, however, is something that is really important to me (and probably makes or breaks whether or not new users will get into the game). Take, for example, how many clicks it takes to view a roster of a team not in your league

This, a million times this. Yes, streamlining, that's the crux of it. That's why I wondered aloud if another button at the top and resorted/reorganizing what's where would help. I haven't decided yet if it would. I do know the right-click menus need ot be reworked because right now they're missing useful things and including some that aren't terribly useful.

archibalduk wrote:I'm not saying I think FHM should do it like EHM 2007. FHM is its own game in its own right - it's not an EHM clone (nor should it be IMO). What I'm saying is that it is possible to make it quicker and easier than 5 or 7 clicks to access important screens, such as roster screens.

Truthfully I don't want it to be like EHM. Even 2007 had a lot of problems that sucked the fun out of it. I just don't want it to be *work* and that's what you're getting at.

CeeBee wrote:I have many of the same problems. Somewhat slow. clicks don't register and click again a time or 2 and crash. Cumbersome, doesn't feel like I'm part of the game at all.

Yeah. This is why streamlining is important and why it can't be a chore, because it disengages the user from what they're doing. When you repeatedly have to think about where to click and go, you're not thinking about the game or your team and you're not immersed in it. 2007 fell victim to this by it taking *forever* to progress in game-time. You have to strike a balance in everything.

Obviously some of it is familiarity. We'll all get used to getting around a bit more and not have to think about it so much. But even then there's a limit with familiarity. The "clicks not registering" thing in particular is an absolute must-fix. At some point because users won't tolerate that out of a final release.

FHM SHOULD emulate everything EHM did well, what it did well was well for a reason, I would hate for a worse product just because "it's its own thing"

For example, right click, hit scout, hit "All available scouts" is a nice and quick way to scout players while still allowing for depth by clicking individual scouts and queing jobs
or what archi said with the team clicking
One click dress/scratching
Fast line switching could be helpful
(Having a head coach would be helpful too, but I know that will be implemented later....and if its not )
Multiple GM's too
Actual September 2012 rosters
The ability to sign players from another league lower than you if your the AHL (unable to sign a grizzlie player I need as a heat, beacuse...)
Cant call up players from a lower affiliate if they are not yours, even if you put them there (I move down X, cant call him back up because he belongs to Calgary and not me, not sure if intentional)
The game also doesnt allow you to call up players UNLESS youre in the roster management category, which is dumb, cause I cant click on Utah, and call up a player, I have to navigate
Also why cant I put a scout in charge of scouting? or an assistant gm in charge of trades? I can only put one coach on everything. I edited the game to make this guy Troy Ward so it works for the heat, but yeah
No possible way to set tatics for all of a certain situation or all lines, so I have to individually change all my lines to have high forcheck in all situations

And thats just what I can see without simming a day on my save

Primis wrote:Yes, streamlining, that's the crux of it. That's why I wondered aloud if another button at the top and resorted/reorganizing what's where would help. I haven't decided yet if it would. I do know the right-click menus need ot be reworked because right now they're missing useful things and including some that aren't terribly useful.

I have been struggling to come up with a solution too. That is, struggling to come up with a solution within the confines of the OOTP style menu.

This probably isn't the best solution, but I'm thinking perhaps there could be an additional button too. The additional button would take the form of a Team Selection button which would replace the current drop-down menu within a menu (I really don't like this idea - it's very fiddly and feels over-elaborate). So the present Team Menu is separated out into two buttons - one to select the team and one for the present Team Menu (view rosters, view finances, etc).

There also needs to be a quick and easy way of returning the Team Menu back to your team. IIRC at present, you have to re-select your team via the League and Team drop-down menus. Seeing as you'll be viewing your own team screens very often, I think there should be a button or something to return the Team Menu to your team.

I also wish the Back button wouldn't keep dupes (switching back and forth between 2 screens, sometimes not by choice but because the game itself makes that decision).