Official™ 2007 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs Talk

Systemfel · Post by **Systemfel** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:42 pm

batdad wrote:Don't be to concerned about Daniel and Henrik. Take a look at Anaheim's ice time chart last night. Although Selanne line played normal ice time, take a look at the PPG line. 10 minutes for Perry/Penner, Getzlaff 15 due to his PK time. I find that very telling. Alain is keeping the Anaheim scorers off with Henrik and Daniel, and when the twins are on the ice, even when they are not scoring... most of the time the puck is in the other team's end.

That has been going on all season. Penner finished with an ATOI at 14 and Perry with one at just 12.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:58 pm

Yep and it is due to the checking line they constantly deploy. To me...that is a great thing for the opposition come playoff time. As long as the secondary scoring of the opposition kicks in. For the Canucks that is Mo, Nazzy and the d-men getting involved. That and of course the stinking, rotten Power play. This will be the Ducks downfall, if and when they do not win the Cup. Especially against a team like Buffalo who can skate you into the ground with 4 lines. Basically from the ice time the Ducks are playing with 2.5 lines. Not even 3.

Checking lines are great...as long as you make sure your scorers on line 1 and 2 get ice time.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:19 am

That Buffalo quote was intended more to be a snarky lamentation than a statement of fact/opinion. These posts don't let the pathos drip from your voice like real life. I respect Ruff as a coach, especially his willingness to bench top guys for failure to play responsibly, but the Sabres really aren't, as a unit, cut out for constant rough-and-tumble hockey. Guys like Drury and Roy are always making the sacrifice, but that attitude doesn't run through the entire roster for 60 minutes. I guess if it doesn't need to, it doesn't need to.

I only say Canucks fans will be clamouring for change if they get knocked out on account of an inability to score when necessary, I'm not saying the fans don't love the team (how could they not with that marketing team!?!). That was the chorus from Flames fans last off-season, hence Tanguay and the new offensive outlook. Of course, when it happened everybody asked "what happened to the defense?" but I'm not here to ponder the hypocrisy of hockey fans (especially those who don't understand the game/bandwagon fans). I think Dave Nonis is a joker, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Canucks' cap struggles continue, especially if scoring depth becomes the big off-season issue. Guys who can be relied on to score 20 goals aren't cheap and banking on young talent, which the Canucks have had an inconsistent time with at best, is risky. This is a problem facing nearly every franchise but when the demand to win is as high as it is in Vancouver, it makes things more difficult. The owners are going to sink the agreement they fought so hard for sooner rather than later...

The Anaheim checking line is awfully well equipped to do offensive damage as far as checking lines go, that's probably why Carlyle is content to play them so much. It's probably also occurred to him that he might as well keep the top line rested as much as possible, considering the Ducks can win in just about any way they choose. The tendency of the West to beat the crud out of each other on the way to the Finals is a big reason the Cup has gone to the East the last couple seasons.

Post by **CatchUp** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:52 am

Another one goes by Marty glove side. Are the Sens in his head?

NJD-OTT was a very tight game - stereotypical Devils hockey - but the Sens played them very well.

Looking forward to this Sharks game!

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:39 am

Seems to me that the Sens owned that game pretty much from beginning to end. If a lesser goalie is in net it's 5-0.

Post by **CatchUp** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:24 am

Thundercleese wrote:Seems to me that the Sens owned that game pretty much from beginning to end. If a lesser goalie is in net it's 5-0.

Im not so sure about the Sens completely dominating the ENTIRE game. Parise had some good chances in the 3rd and Emery was sharp.

That being said - Brodeur was his usual hall of fame self. Except for the Priessing goal. Of course, The Devs are arguing that Fisher interferred with Marty, but that is junk. Martys skate was out of the crease and Fisher barely clipped him.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:45 am

Well I'm not trying to suggest that they kept the Devils from getting a shot on net or anything, but the chances were WAY in Ottawa's favour and any team is going to get a couple chances here or there (hence the 'pretty much'

). Lou seemed pretty soft-spoken about the Fisher thing actually, all things considered. It was pretty minor interference; it's not like Fisher prevented him from getting up off the ice, or even knocked him down to it to begin with.

Post by **Minstrel** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:03 am

That was a HUGE game for San Jose

At points they absolutely destroyed Detroit around Hasek who once again has to prove he can be the rubber-band man instead of just stopping the puck, but then you all know how fiercly overrated I feel he is a goaltender... Detroit had no answer for San Jose's cycle game and good ole Cheli was there to provide many a sweet turnover and Bertuzzi was there to take stupid penalties when they were least needed. Yeah, I pretty much loved how that one played out

And Brodeur? Still godlike

Post by **batdad** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:03 pm

Hee! I love the Wings last night. The two best friends (B&C) cost them the game! HAHAH HAHA. Nice play by CHEE CHOO.

T-cleese: Before you comment again on Canucks salary cap woes, actually read about them. Not just my comments but check it out. Learn who they have back, and who they don't care about before saying they are in trouble. Cause they have no woes. IT ain't perfect like being at the WAGE FLOOR, but it is not looking to sign three guys who need huge raises to 4 mill either. They are in good shape with the increase. Actually know what you are speaking of...you usually have some good points, but you are way off base here.

For scoring the Cancucks have a #19 in the last year of his contract...that usually helps alot!!! and they have a UFA monkey in the lobby who can score 20 with Daniel/Henrik. But failing the monkey....There are several Byron Ritchie's out there who could pot 20 with those dudes. League minimum. In other words Pyatt is Carter. FAns in Vancouver love Markus, so they are VERY VERY WILLING TO GO ANOTHER YEAR WITH HIM. Plus we know if he does nothing,... we let his contrat expire...and bingo bango bongo....$6.75 to spend .... hmmmmm 1 more year for Markus.

Yes they will complain about not scoring much sometimes, but if we are in the playoffs, winning the division and competing...then all is going to be forgiven for one more year. Canuck fans want Markus to pull a Teemu. Canuck fans are dying for it here.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:52 pm

I know exactly what I'm talking about; I know who is expiring and I know who is worth keeping. That doesn't change the fact that I think (underline, 'think' here) Dave Nonis is a clown and that he'll be the first guy to overpay for unproven talent, and that'll keep them right up against it. I'm not trying to say "this is inevitable because of this guy and this guy" but in my OPINION it's likely. Cowan will stay for cheap, Linden will stay for cheap, and if Pyatt's smart he'll stay for cheap too. Kesler will be about the same...it's not the current situation that would worry me, it's what Nonis does in the off-season to address the inevitable outcry for scoring. It WILL happen--getting shut out two games in a row in the playoffs is pretty much unacceptable to any fan base. If they had lost in game 7 it would've been trouble...as much as it's a testament to the team that they overcame something like back-to-back shutouts, if they can't score more than 2 goals against the Ducks, people will want more scoring, guaranteed. Naslund can pretty much do whatever he wants and Vancouver will love him, but even if he gets back into the 35-40 goal range that won't necessarily be enough. If the Sedins + whoever is capable of standing in front of the net with his stick on the ice are the only consistent line, that's big trouble.

I'm also not stupid enough to deny the trouble the Flames are in, I've been preaching it all year to other Flames fans who are always unwilling to listen--the Flames' troubles are FACT, not opinion. When I say Iggy would have to take a 3-4 million dollar paycut to keep the roster about as it is they a) think I'm nuts or b) think he'd take the cut. When I say that Huselius will be a 5 million dollar player if he has another season like the last one they say "NOOOOO, that's WAY off, he'd be maybe 3, 3.5," etc, etc.

As far as the cap goes, every team is in trouble if ridiculous contracts continue to be handed out and if the cap keeps going up. Nobody seems to be asking themselves what happens if and when the cap drops--it's tied to revenue so sooner or later it has to, right? What happens when suddenly ten or eleven teams are over? Is there a clause in the CBA to deal with it? (I'm asking, I don't know the answer)

Kipper's a Vezina finalist but Langkow's not in there for the Selke, nor Tanguay or Huselius for the Byng? Shysty.

Post by **batdad** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:37 pm

Clearly you do not know the Vancouver fan base T-cleese. Listen to Team 1040..we keep saying they have to score to win, but that we are not that worried as the team has overachieved from expectation already. This team will be better, with EXACTLY the same line up next year as this. Provided of course it stays healthy. Please pause before replying check out other forums about the Canucks (not CDC) which is a 12 year old love fest. Read some Vancouver newspaper articles....all of which I do before I speak about the Flames or anyone else.

And no, now you are not stupid enough to deny the trouble the Flames are in. I can see that now, and have since about January, when it became clear in the standings where they were headed. I give you that.

And since the Canucks are still in the playoffs, no need to discuss how fans will react in the offseason. Maybe, just maybe the team continues on. And this stuff about Nazzy love? So not true. Fans have been riding him, all year, never mind the playoffs... telling him to get the C off his shirt, telling him to retire, and saying he better put up or get out. If he puts out Canucks win! If he does not, and retires..Canucks win.

Noone is going to go over the cap...they can't. The market will change, and some players will have to sign for cheaper or go play somewhere else.

Now this is the playoff thread...if we want to speak about Salary Cap issues teams have for next year...we should start a new thread. Be forewarned, I will put up the entire $ values Vancouver has committed for next year, site the increased Cap to $50 mill or thereabouts, and show you the Canucks roster...

Systemfel · Post by **Systemfel** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:01 am

Thundercleese wrote:Nobody seems to be asking themselves what happens if and when the cap drops--it's tied to revenue so sooner or later it has to, right? What happens when suddenly ten or eleven teams are over? Is there a clause in the CBA to deal with it? (I'm asking, I don't know the answer)

I would guess that if the cap goes down by, say, 10%, all contracts will be reduced by 10%.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:25 am

Yeah, I beleive there is a mechanism for that somewhere. Involves withholding $ from players based on revenues.

But this is the playoff thread.

GO SABRES!

Post by **CatchUp** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:54 am

batdad wrote:For scoring the Cancucks have a #19 in the last year of his contract...that usually helps alot!!! and they have a UFA monkey in the lobby who can score 20 with Daniel/Henrik. But failing the monkey....There are several Byron Ritchie's out there who could pot 20 with those dudes. League minimum. In other words Pyatt is Carter. FAns in Vancouver love Markus, so they are VERY VERY WILLING TO GO ANOTHER YEAR WITH HIM. Plus we know if he does nothing,... we let his contrat expire...and bingo bango bongo....$6.75 to spend .... hmmmmm 1 more year for Markus.

That is exactly the sense I get from most Canuck fans in the city too...I don't get the whole giving up on Marcus and wanting him out. Most fans I know (and I do know a few hardcore Canuckleheads!) are completely fine with him keeping the 'C' for next season, regardless of this year's playoff performance. If he doesn't show up, let him walk and replace him with a UFA next summer. Done and done.

Now if I was a Leafs fan, I'd be wanting them to do the same thing with Sundin. Let him walk and save the 7 million for someone with both hips. JFJ's marketing team would eat him alive for letting the face of the franchise walk, but come on - that money can be better spent elsewhere. It would be a smart hockey decision not to re-sign him. But that's not exactly what JFJ is known for - so Sundin will have the Leaf on his sweater. I'm betting a 2-year deal at 6 per.

And yeah, batdad could probably win the Rocket if he skated with #22 and #33. He'd be next year's Chee Choo.

Cheers.

I'm about to pull out the Canucks av! And some beers!

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 2:46 am

Sabres SCORE! Oh wait, no they don't. Lindy is HOT HOT HOT. Too funny, me love Lindy. He is funny.

Note to Rangers fans everywhere: YOu got a break, a huge break. Now maybe, just maybe, Rangers fans will be quiet for a day or so about how "The League" is being run to "Screw the Rangers". Nah...give it 22 hours.

WOW! What a third period though. Sooooo exciting.

Whatever happened from Lindy Ruff's playing days. He used to be called Ruff at home, and Lindy on the road.

Edited to add:

Holy...2-1 Rangers, and the three stars are:

Jagr, Lundqvist, Shanahan. Homers much?

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Wed May 02, 2007 2:58 am

It's hard for me to listen to the Team 1040 or read the Province being in Ottawa...I'm just saying that Naslund has been the face of the Canucks (alongside Linden) for a loooooonnggg time now and people tend to be more forgiving towards those guys. And I know the Canucks fan-base pretty well, based on time spent living there a couple years back. I know how fiercely passionate they are about their team and I know how blindly confident they can be. IF the Canucks fail to score more than 2 goals against the Ducks and it's a short series, goal-scoring will be an issue in the off-season. I'm basing this on knowledge of hockey fans in general, not Vancouver fans in specific--there's never a problem until you're eliminated (this is where I keep the post on-topic!). Tonight is the swing game of the series and Vancouver is going to have to dig real deep and get second/third chances on Giguere. Giggy has always been overrated and his stats inflated by his excellent technical skills but his improvisational/acrobatic ability, while improved in recent years, is still not up to snuff. Guys like Cowan and Pyatt should be able to fight their way into the back of the net, both literally and figuratively to win the game. PS - Congrats to Luongo and Vigneault for their nods. PPS - Speaking of the Sedins and whomever plays with them, does anyone remember the name of the guy who scored like 40-odd goals with Gretzky, got traded to Vancouver and then did nothing? Glen Sather said something like "a fire hydrant could score 40 goals on a line with Gretzky." Classic.

WHAT A GAME! The Rangers/Sabres series was FANTASTIC. Maybe the best of the playoffs. I loved it. Everyone will be talking about the non-goal; it looked like the back millimetre of the puck wasn't quite over to me but that's irrelevant now and holding the Sabres to even 2 goals is an impressive feat. Lundqvist was huge, Jagr huge, Avery huge, on and on down the line-up. The Rangers are on a mission, even in the games they lost. I don't traditionally like them but I'm really buying into the way they played in that series. Awesome. Why the past tense? Because holding the Sabres to one goal counts as two wins, so the Rangers won the series 4-2. Duh.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:16 am

Internet? Its all there..but no big deal.

Blair (B.J.) Macdonald is your Oiler. I coached his kid 10 years ago. Learned a hell of alot from him, after many people told me he was a complete dick. But he was awesome! So much info. So little time to glean from him.

Bah--Mission...smission. The Flames won 2 home games in their series too.

Post by **CatchUp** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:34 am

The BraBarian isn't playing? What's the deal?

Good that Bieksa is back though.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:17 am

You're just bitter...the Rangers are playing a much more complete game than the Flames did at any point.

If Iginla played as hard as Jagr has been, the series would've gone much differently. Or at least a little differently.

Good 40 minutes by the Canucks so far...see what I mean about Giguere? That should be an easy save but as soon as he has to make an adjustment, he leaves a GAPING hole. Don't get me wrong, I've said it earlier in the year, I wish the Flames still played the way the Canucks do now. Nobody was complaining when they went to the Finals. Maybe missing the playoffs last year will make 'Nucks fans more forgiving for the trouble scoring....Pretty classless those fans who booed Selanne as blood gushed from his pie-hole, not to paint the entire crowd with the same brush or anything. I really hate how lame fans can be sometimes--like when Flames fans unleashed the "Ricci's ugly" chant in the Conference Finals for three home games against the Sharks. I've never been so embarrassed to be a fan.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:13 am

Yeah...40 minutes. darn them....when will they learn?

AS for the fans booing Selanne it is classless, however they did not see the stick...too low by the boards...and Teemu has been diving all over the freaking place in this series. So I kind of get it, though it is not condoned.

Yeah, Flames fans needed to be more original. A Ricci is hot chant would have had much more effect. He knows he is ugly. He is so ugly, he gets chicks.

CatchUp-Cowan is out with the rampant flu bug of course.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:12 am

It was a fairly hard stick to see...it looked fairly innocuous considering all the blood Selanne spat out (which is why I don't think there's much room to misinterpret what happened). I tuned out of the game when I decided there was little chance Vancouver was going to give up a 2 goal lead...hmm.

Ironically, Ricci was voted the Sexiest Man in Colorado when he played there. I'm not kidding...although I'm sure the voters were.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:49 pm

Yep..like I said...40 minutes is not a full game. THis is a team that has based everything on work ethic all season long. Playoffs come, and they seem to have forgotten that. Oh well, a lesson learned?

My God, Vigneault broke up the twins. Henrik had very little ice time in the third, yet somehow managed to go -3. He had the worst game of his career or at least since he was a rookie.

But it was not the twins problem. Did anyone notice that the Canucks continually tried to come up the left side boards. I think maybe 3 breakouts up the right? Mitchell, Ohlund, Sopel really struggled making solid passes. Well maybe not Mitchell. And the wingers: Naslund, Bulis, and Green in particular...although all played well in the 1st and 2nd...were brutal at getting the puck chipped out.

The breakout was the problem. Daniel and Henrik did not play well, but with Mo and Nazzy scoring, should not have been an issue.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:41 pm

See why Carlyle is in no hurry to get his checking line off the ice?

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:17 pm

Nope. In fact he should leave em off the ice, if Henrik continues to play the way he did yesterday. More ice time for Henrik.

I knew that comment would come. Fact is goals were created by stupid Vancouver plays, and crashing by ducks with Pronger and Nieds on the point. Certainly not created by a guy named Moen or his linemates. Bad plays at the blue line by Canucks wingers/centres caused the goals. All of em.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:50 am

Moen - 5 points, Pahlsson - 6 points. Daniel Sedin - 5 points, Henrik Sedin - 4 points. Nuff said. Don't take anything away from the guys who finish the plays that their teammates set up with hard work or who capitalize on the mistakes of the other team. If finishing was so easy the Canucks would've won the series by now; they've certainly had more than their share of chances.