TBL Retro Rosters 1998/99 (Discussion & correction thread)

[m0fownz0r]

Hey, I'm not sure this is DB related but here is my issue - Playing as DRW, acquired Bure, waited out his AWOP and played him in the playoffs, however, when the next season rolled around and I was about play the 1st game I was asked to assign squad numbers only the game won't let me assign a number to P. Bure?! I tried going on vacation but it only sims the game and asks me to assign number again after thath. Anybody had anything liek that happened to them?

[Ahall88]

I can't seem to find Igor Grigorenko anywhere.
Not all the important since he ended up being a bust as far as the NHL is concerned, but still it would be a fun with if, since the car accident wouldn't happen in this, lol.

[bruins72]

So I was scouting the 2001 draft and came across Patrick Dwyer. He's 5'9" and 381 lbs! He'd be shaped like a beach ball and probably would have been forced to play goal so he could occupy the entire net.

[CJ]

So I was scouting the 2001 draft and came across Patrick Dwyer. He's 5'9" and 381 lbs! He'd be shaped like a beach ball and probably would have been forced to play goal so he could occupy the entire net.

Thanks. Found 3 players ~170 kg in the database. I'm gonna fix them.

I can't seem to find Igor Grigorenko anywhere.
Not all the important since he ended up being a bust as far as the NHL is concerned, but still it would be a fun with if, since the car accident wouldn't happen in this, lol.

I can add him.

[bruins72]

I know about a week ago you were asking when Lemieux retires in people's games. I was just playing through again and he retired on January 7th of 1999.

[CJ]

I know about a week ago you were asking when Lemieux retires in people's games. I was just playing through again and he retired on January 7th of 1999.

So no one here has not yet see him do a comeback?

[dahtroop]

I know about a week ago you were asking when Lemieux retires in people's games. I was just playing through again and he retired on January 7th of 1999.

So no one here has not yet see him do a comeback?

Lemieux retired on June 5th 2002 in my game. He came back for the 00-01 season and played 78 games in Vancouver. Then for the 01-02 season he played 82 games in Anaheim. Kariya - Lemieux - Selänne as the first line and Anaheim still didn't make the playoffs!

[Asher413]

In he 2002 Draft rankings, Sidney Crosby is #1 in the WHL rankings. I'm not a geography expert, but I'm not sure why Cole Harbor Nova Scotia would be considered Western Canada. Not sure if it's a game error or database error.

[bruins72]

Yandle went third in the 2001 WHL Bantam Draft. He's from Massachusetts and played in the QMJHL in real life. The DB has his place of birth correct, so I would think that the game mishandled him and allowed him to be drafted in the WHL.

[nino33]

In he 2002 Draft rankings, Sidney Crosby is #1 in the WHL rankings. I'm not a geography expert, but I'm not sure why Cole Harbor Nova Scotia would be considered Western Canada. Not sure if it's a game error or database error.

Yandle went third in the 2001 WHL Bantam Draft. He's from Massachusetts and played in the QMJHL in real life. The DB has his place of birth correct, so I would think that the game mishandled him and allowed him to be drafted in the WHL.

Where were they playing when drafted? Was Crosby playing in Cole Harbour, and Yandle in Massachusetts when drafted into the WHL? Or were they playing for a team within the WHL protected/draftable area?

[bruins72]

Yandle was playing for a team in the SMHL, in Saskatchewan.

[Asher413]

Crosby is with the Cranbrook Midget Ice

Also- Curtis Glencross appears to have an extra space at the end of his first name.

[nino33]

Where were they playing when drafted? Was Crosby playing in Cole Harbour, and Yandle in Massachusetts when drafted into the WHL? Or were they playing for a team within the WHL protected/draftable area?

Yandle was playing for a team in the SMHL, in Saskatchewan.

Crosby is with the Cranbrook Midget Ice

So it makes total sense that they were drafted by/into the WHL.....any indication of why/how they strayed so far from their home area when growing up? Teams they played for before they played in BC/Saskatchewan?

[bruins72]

Nope. There's no sign for Yandle. He doesn't show up until 99-00 season and he's playing with Beardy's of the SMHL.

I just came across a minor mistake with a staff member. Larry Robinson shows as Canadian (appropriately) but it shows his place of birth as Winchester, Massachusetts, USA instead of Winchester, Ontario, Canada.

[Primis]

Dumb question, but I generally don't mess in this area of things w/ future transfers.

IIRC, there's an area of the EXTRA_CONFIG where you can set future transfers with a designated date, right?

So I could feasibly go through and set all the guys too young to already be on an NCAA to be "committed" to the actual NCAA team they played with, correct? Does that still work even if you designate it say 3 or 4 years out from the game start date?

It'd be nice to filter guys to their proper NCAA programs and whatnot.

To be honest, that could also help direct guys so that things like above (Crosby and Yandle going in the WHL draft) don't happen. At least keep them in their proper regions/areas until they can be drafed to their proper major junior leagues.

[Manimal]

If you set a future transfer to a college team, then I think that player won't sign anywhere else during that time.
I haven't tested this. I just have a distant memory of it.
It would work for lower leagues, I think. You can have Crosby signing with a midget team in NS, probably.

[Primis]

If you set a future transfer to a college team, then I think that player won't sign anywhere else during that time.
I haven't tested this. I just have a distant memory of it.
It would work for lower leagues, I think. You can have Crosby signing with a midget team in NS, probably.

Can you set multiple instances of signing for a single player? Have Player A sign with Team X at such and such a date, and then Team Y 3 years down the road? Or is that config file only parsed once at start-up and can't handle that much detail?

[Asher413]

Where were they playing when drafted? Was Crosby playing in Cole Harbour, and Yandle in Massachusetts when drafted into the WHL? Or were they playing for a team within the WHL protected/draftable area?

Yandle was playing for a team in the SMHL, in Saskatchewan.

Crosby is with the Cranbrook Midget Ice

So it makes total sense that they were drafted by/into the WHL.....any indication of why/how they strayed so far from their home area when growing up? Teams they played for before they played in BC/Saskatchewan?

For Sid- his first team listed is Cranbrook in 2000-2001, signed on 8/12/00. And for completness sake, he hasn't been drafted into the WHL yet, just the #1 prospect for their draft .

Checking further- Ranked #6 in the WHL is Andrew Coligno from Toronto. He signed in the BC Midgets (Victoria Ice Hawks) in June 2000. #15 in the WHL rankings, Theo Peckham, from Richmond Hill Ontario. He signed into the South Saskatchewan Midget Hockey League in 2000. Tom Sestito (#17 WHL) from New York signed into the SSMHL as well. Cam Talbot from Ontario signed into the Manitoba Midget AAA Hockey League,

OHL Ranked prospects- Andrew MacDonald from Nova Scotia, Signed with Sudbury in the Great Northern Midget League.

The top 25 ranked for the Q seem okay.

So yes, with my quick check of the top 25 for each group, it's players who are playing far away from their birthplaces that are eligible for the other drafts. Not sure why these players started out so far away, but I can't say it's unrealistic (lot's of kids move far away from where they were born before 14.)

[bruins72]

Is it possible to include some American high schools or prep schools to the DB like we have with the modern DB? I'm seeing some future upper tier NHLers that have no team in their draft year because they're committed to playing for an NCAA team in next season. For example, in the 2002 draft, both David Backes and Zach Parise are unranked by the ISS and have no current team. Backes will play for Western Michigan in the fall and Parise will play for Dartmouth. My scouts have them both as 5 star prospects.

[Primis]

Vitali Yachmenev is on NAS, and "Vitali Yachmenyov" is on NAS's farm in Milwaukee in my game. Both have same age/birthdate, weight, and height. The latter has terrible PA and CA though.

Is it possible to include some American high schools or prep schools to the DB like we have with the modern DB

There are American HS's in the DB already. In my current game with the DB, in February of 1999 I show both Parise and Backes playing for Breck in Minnesota under "US High School West". Contracts in that league should expire in June, and the league is "19 and under". I wonder if their HS team(s) released them mid-season in your game for some weird reason? Can you check their Histories and see anything on what happened with them? Maybe they got lost in a shuffle of players re-signing with HS teams somehow?

[nino33]

Is it possible to include some American high schools or prep schools to the DB like we have with the modern DB? I'm seeing some future upper tier NHLers that have no team in their draft year because they're committed to playing for an NCAA team in next season.

Everything that was in the 2006 database is in the 1998 database, so they're already there.....



Here's the list of US Leagues for players with an Upper Age of 20 (League Reputation is in brackets).....
United States Hockey League (7)
North American Hockey League (6)
North American Hockey League North (6)
North American Hockey League South (6)
North American Hockey League West (6)
Eastern Junior Hockey League (5)
Eastern Junior League Northern Division (5)
Eastern Junior League Southern Division (5)
Western States Hockey League (4)
Interstate Junior Hockey League (3)
Central States Hockey League (3)
Empire Junior B Hockey League (3)
Empire Jr. B Hockey League West (3)
Empire Jr. B Hockey League East (3)
Minnesota Junior Hockey League (3)
Metropolitan Junior Hockey League (3)
Northern Pacific Hockey League (3)



Here's the list of US Leagues for players with an Upper Age of 19 (League Reputation is in brackets).....
United States High School East (5)
United States High School West (5)

The United States High School East has 55 teams, the United States High School West has 69 teams



And here's the list of US Leagues for players with an Upper Age of 16 (League Reputation is in brackets).....
United States U16 East (1)
California Amateur Hockey Association (1)
United States U16 West (1)

The United States U16 East has 28 teams, the California Amateur Hockey Association has 6 teams and the United States U16 West has 16 teams

[bruins72]

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I just checked Backes and he played 3 seasons at Breck before being released in August of 2001. He's still 17 and he had 3 really good seasons there. I don't see why the team would have released him though. Same exact thing with Parise, except that Parise played even better during those 3 years.

Why is the game handling them like this then?

[Primis]

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I just checked Backes and he played 3 seasons at Breck before being released in August of 2001. He's still 17 and he had 3 really good seasons there. I don't see why the team would have released him though. Same exact thing with Parise, except that Parise played even better during those 3 years.

Why is the game handling them like this then?

I wonder after 3 seasons of development if their Reputation exceeds the league's or something, and so the player wouldn't sign back with them yet again because he feels he's "too good", even though he then has nowhere else then to play? I know there were similar things that happened with nino's 70's DB with young players... maybe there should be a single non-playable "Elite HS" league of a small handful of teams with a higher reputation that these guys can move on to, but stay in HS, instead of just not playing at all?

[nino33]

Why is the game handling them like this then?

Good question/I wish I knew!

My guess, off the top of my head.....it seems with the examples of Crosby and others playing in unexpected Major Junior Leagues is less of or not an issue with the QMJHL - I wonder if that's because there's "more coding" applied to the QMJHL? Coding connected to a French-Canadian name selection would be connected to birthplace I think, and maybe there's something that makes the Quebec born player more likely to play in the QMJHL? Anecdotally it seems to me that Quebecers are far less likely to end up out of the QMJHL

If this guess is even close to true, then perhaps there's not the same coding to keep most Maritimers in the Q and Ontarians in the O and westerners in the W?

And then the to being this back to the US Leagues, perhaps the coding isn't robust enough, and needs improvement (seems to!)

The reality is there's quite a few examples of the "typical/reasonable hockey path" not being followed in EHM (Alessandro has many examples from Russia/Europe)

[nino33]

just checked Backes and he played 3 seasons at Breck before being released in August of 2001. He's still 17 and he had 3 really good seasons there. I don't see why the team would have released him though. Same exact thing with Parise, except that Parise played even better during those 3 years.

Why is the game handling them like this then?

I wonder after 3 seasons of development if their Reputation exceeds the league's or something, and so the player wouldn't sign back with them yet again because he feels he's "too good", even though he then has nowhere else then to play? I know there were similar things that happened with nino's 70's DB with young players... maybe there should be a single non-playable "Elite HS" league of a small handful of teams with a higher reputation that these guys can move on to, but stay in HS, instead of just not playing at all?

Good thinking Primis, worth looking into!
Bruins, if you have a save that would show it (end of last year/during their year of not playing) can you send me your any such saves so I can try to look into this possibility further (by checking Reputation using the Assistant)

The thing is, the game looks at everything as "just numbers" (a retro or modern database makes little to no difference to the game).
So if it's happening in the 1998 database, to me that means it's very likely happening in the current database too.....unless Riz has made improvements in this area with the new EHM? and if so, hopefully he could add the improved code to the 2006 rule set too