Official NHL Season 2016-2017 Thread

[CJ]

I don't really know what 130CA/150CA actually means, but i'd want Pavelec to be clearly better

He won't be clearly better as he isn't end; of discussion. Rämö 130 would be one of the worst in the NHL (110-120 are the worst backups). 150 would be almost in the same class of Varlamov and Bobrovsky.

[Peter_Doherty]

I don't really know what 130CA/150CA actually means, but i'd want Pavelec to be clearly better

He won't be clearly better as he isn't end; of discussion. Rämö 130 would be one of the worst in the NHL (110-120 are the worst backups). 150 would be almost in the same class of Varlamov and Bobrovsky.

"as he isn't" - According to you But whatever, ur the boss when it comes to the db.

[m0fownz0r]

I don't really know what 130CA/150CA actually means, but i'd want Pavelec to be clearly better

He won't be clearly better as he isn't end; of discussion. Rämö 130 would be one of the worst in the NHL (110-120 are the worst backups). 150 would be almost in the same class of Varlamov and Bobrovsky.

"as he isn't" - According to you But whatever, ur the boss when it comes to the db.

I'm not into adjusted stats, %s and whatnot but Pavelec is real bad. As in waived in favor of a rookie and carrer backup bad.

[CJ]

"as he isn't" - According to you But whatever, ur the boss when it comes to the db.

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I just had to, hahaha. Everyone has a right to their opinion.
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On another subject..

Actually a goalie with SV%0.91 which is pretty bad nowadays, compared to a SV%0.92 which is good. That's 1 puck in a 100 shots difference. These days the difference is very small compared to what it has been. I mean average NHL goalie compared to good and great.

I am still clueless how Hasek managed to do SV%0.93 in the beginning of the 90's when people still scored easily over 100 points. Not only did he do it; but 5 times in the 90's.
Everyone has talked about Roy and Brodeur being the best etc. of that era. But none of them reached a SV% of 0.93... ever.

Maybe Nino the retired "goalie" can put some input into this.

[Peter_Doherty]

I'm not into adjusted stats, %s and whatnot but Pavelec is real bad. As in waived in favor of a rookie and carrer backup bad.

Not according to the stats i showed, he's an above average goalie He was waived because Hellebyuk is their future and he was ready and it's just easier to keep Hutchinson as a backup. Can't really use what the FO does to 'prove' that he's bad. Good players are put on waivers every year for different reasons.

CJ - The answer is easy, Hasek was the best goalie ever, by far.

[nino33]

Maybe Nino the retired "goalie" can put some input into this.

Regarding modern goalies, I really do think they're essentially shooter tutors now, and none of them impress me (they're essentially all the same in virtually every way, and they "play the percentages" they don't play goal.....I see many goals where nowadays where the goaltender going into the butterfly actually gets out of the way of the shot /goals in close where the goalies down early and essentially gives up a goal on shots that would hit standup goalies - but nowadays it's not about trying to make a save, it's about everybody playing the same style/positionally and playing the percentages)


Regarding best ever save percentage in a single season, I think that would be Jacque Plante's 0.942 in 1970-71 http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2011/ ... r-the-ages

I posted some save percentage numbers from hockey history back in 2014, and the biggest difference I see is top goaltenders used to be much better than the league average, nowadays there's not much of a difference (the other noticeable difference is top goaltenders stayed at the top year-after-year more than goaltenders nowadays) http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 14&t=12069


Regarding advanced stats, IMO they're an assessment tool but they're not the complete picture by any means, and they can't be relied upon alone/they're not definitive.....when you see outliers in the data (like high possession teams that aren't playoff teams/low possession teams that are) it shows that

With goaltenders it's not always what percentage of shots you stop, but things like when you make the stop/give up goals and what kind of goals you give up & whether you have confidence in yourself/inspire confidence in your teammates (something that I think Pavelec lacked)


That's my two cents

[Primis]

I posted some save percentage numbers from hockey history back in 2014, and the biggest difference I see is top goaltenders used to be much better than the league average, nowadays there's not much of a difference (the other noticeable difference is top goaltenders stayed at the top year-after-year more than goaltenders nowadays) http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 14&t=12069

I think one big difference is the premium now on traffic in front of goalie, and I think that's become a great equalizer of sorts. It doesn't matter how good a goalie is, he simply can't stop a shot he can't see.

I wholly agree though that goalies now only really last a few years. You don't get a guy being dominant for 10 years anymore, and you never will under these rules. That's why I don't care who the goalie is, I think signing any goalie at all to a contract longer than say 3 years is beyond stupid. Within 3 years, their performance falls off, and then it's on to Next Guy™.

[nino33]

I think one big difference is the premium now on traffic in front of goalie, and I think that's become a great equalizer of sorts. It doesn't matter how good a goalie is, he simply can't stop a shot he can't see.

There was traffic "in the old days" too, and goaltenders got bumped more, guys were in the crease more, and guys would crash the net more (in comparison goaltenders nowadays are very protected)

While of course I agree that you can't stop what you can't see, in the old days goaltenders used to look for the puck more, now they just go down into the butterfly (no different really than when they can see the puck)

[Peter_Doherty]

I wholly agree though that goalies now only really last a few years. You don't get a guy being dominant for 10 years anymore, and you never will under these rules. That's why I don't care who the goalie is, I think signing any goalie at all to a contract longer than say 3 years is beyond stupid. Within 3 years, their performance falls off, and then it's on to Next Guy™.

This is why Henrik Lundqvist is so impressive, he's been arguably a top-5 goalie in every single season he's been in the league. Like you said, it doesn't happen anymore, except when it comes to Hank, he's the outlier.

[m0fownz0r]

I'm not into adjusted stats, %s and whatnot but Pavelec is real bad. As in waived in favor of a rookie and carrer backup bad.

Not according to the stats i showed, he's an above average goalie He was waived because Hellebyuk is their future and he was ready and it's just easier to keep Hutchinson as a backup. Can't really use what the FO does to 'prove' that he's bad. Good players are put on waivers every year for different reasons.

CJ - The answer is easy, Hasek was the best goalie ever, by far.

The bolded is my point of view as well. There are other goalies that are arguably as good, however, none of them peaked as high as Hasek. ..and Brodeur doesn't even enter the conversation, he was very solid for a long time, not the best.

above average goalie

- doesn't mean much in today's game. Especially for goalies.

[Peter_Doherty]

above average goalie

- doesn't mean much in today's game. Especially for goalies.

I mean, above average means just as much as it always does. Means he's an above average NHL goalie

[m0fownz0r]

I mean, above average means just as much as it always does. Means he's an above average NHL goalie

Right, here today - gone tomorrow

[CJ]

Roy is the only one for me that could challenge Hasek of being the best cause of his superb playoff acheievements.

[Bam_Margera]

Oilers looked like the Oilers last night. No other team is as mentally frail as the Oilers have been this past decade and it's going to prevent them from being good if nothing changes.

In other news, Bylsma made good adjustments to his system and we looked like a proper organized NHL team last night

I'm fine with a 4-1-0 record and two consecutive 1 goal wins, where they did not poop their pants when being pressured in the third.

[nino33]

I mean, above average means just as much as it always does. Means he's an above average NHL goalie

If look at the link I posted above showing save% data from numerous seasons "in the old days" it clearly shows above average does not mean as much as it used to

[Ukko]

Anyone planning to watch the Oilers at Jets Heritage Classic game tomorrow ? It's a nice time for us in Europe (9 p.m Central Europe) so I'll watch.

I always like the atmosphere of those stadium games for some reason, and I'm curious to see the Laine vs McDavid match too

[philou21]

Vancouver is still undefeated in regular time! I would've never guessed it haha

[nino33]

Anyone planning to watch the Oilers at Jets Heritage Classic game tomorrow ?

I'll be at the final home game for the Edmonton FC

[m0fownz0r]

Red Wings shutting down the Sharks1?!?! EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING!

[Bam_Margera]

Anyone planning to watch the Oilers at Jets Heritage Classic game tomorrow ? It's a nice time for us in Europe (9 p.m Central Europe) so I'll watch.

I always like the atmosphere of those stadium games for some reason, and I'm curious to see the Laine vs McDavid match too

Yes, I will.

edit:

The 2016 Heritage Classic is in a weather delay due to intense sunlight.

Start time is TBD.

[Ukko]

Watched it this morning, I quit after 2 periods of play because I have work to do, but it seems I've seen enough, lucky 3-0 for the Oilers and not a great display of hockey imo.

It's a bit annoying to see such talented players in mediocre teams..

[Modano]

Well, LA Kings and Chicago Blackhawks were mediocre too some day ago Some good things started to happens in Edmonton. I don't think they'll make play off phase this year, but I think that future is bright for them and Winnipeg

[Ukko]

For sure I agree on this, I was simply ranting on the game alone : many turnovers, missplays etc. The goals for Edmonton are mostly lucky and I'd have preferred bright plays instead of Byfuglien knotting his skate laces together

[ClassicSwarley]

What are everyone's thoughts on Jimmy Vesey so far this season? Is he overhyped or is he actually decent? I see he already has 3 goals..

[philou21]

You're the first I see talking about him. In fact I totally forgot about him haha! Good on him if he's doing well. I'm sure Pete got something to say about him.