EHM The Blue Line

Greetings!

You may have heard me say before that EHM1 is a lot different than EHM07 "under the hood"
Recently I received permission from Riz to publicly share one of the significant differences! And that's what I'm going to do in this thread!

Most if not all of us are aware that there are now "Player Roles" in EHM1
This is new - each Player Role has certain Attributes that are Key, Essential, Non-Essential, Irrelevant and Regular

The charts below show the Key, Essential, Non-Essential, Irrelevant Attributes for each Player Role
NOTE - Riz may have tweaked/fine-tuned things, and so this may not be 100% correct, but it is 100% correct as far as I know

The charts in this post have been deleted as they were not showing properly (after the site's software update) and more importantly, the charts in this post were out of date. The correct/current charts are a little lower in this thread - see my January 5th 2018 post below

Nino 3/3/2019

Hello!

Good news, as I've got permission from Riz to post publicly another key piece in the "understanding EHM" puzzle - the expected average attribute by CA chart

As noted above, the new EHM is very different than EHM07 with the new Player Roles and how they affect the Attributes that players have (such as which are more likely to develop quicker and/or more)


For reference, here's the expected average attribute by CA chart from EHM07...

CA	MIN	AVG	MAX
200	8.0	14.0	20.0
190	7.5	13.5	19.5
180	7.0	13.0	19.0
170	6.5	12.5	18.5
160	6.0	12.0	18.0
150	5.5	11.5	17.5
140	5.0	11.0	17.0
130	4.5	10.5	16.5
120	4.0	10.0	16.0
110	3.5	9.5	15.5
100	3.0	9.0	15.0
90	2.5	8.5	14.5
80	2.0	8.0	14.0
70	1.5	7.5	13.5
60	1.0	7.0	13.0
50	1.0	6.5	12.5
40	1.0	6.0	12.0
30	1.0	5.5	11.5
20	1.0	5.0	11.0
10	1.0	4.5	10.5

With EHM07 high CA players often (always?) became "superplayers" who had high Attribute values in almost all/all visible categories. In EHM07 many "hidden Attributes" did not develop much or at all, so too frequently less talented/lower CA players had some unrealistically high visible Attributes, and too frequently high CA players became "superplayers" with almost all/all visible Attributes being extremely high (essentially turning all high CA players into superstar two-way players).

Also, in EHM07 there were Technical Attributes and Non-Technical Attributes and the CA only affected Technical Attributes. This is not the case with the new EHM; there are no longer Technical/Non-Technical categories, and CA along with Player Role can affect all Attributes (along with age, practice, icetime, performance, level of competition, etc - there's a lot that can affect CA/Attribute development!)


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With the new EHM almost all (all?) Attributes can now develop, and there is no longer a minimum/maximum value.
Here's the expected average attribute by CA chart for the new EHM...

CA	AVG
200	16
190	16
180	15
170	14
160	14
150	13
140	12
130	12
120	11
110	10
100	10
90	9
80	8
70	8
60	7
50	6
40	6
30	5
20	4
10	4
1	3

The average Attribute value is a guideline, to be used in conjunction with the Player Role (Attributes can't be raised/lowered without consideration of the Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes for the player's Player Role; the new EHM can and will change Attributes if edits are made that are to unrealistic for the player's CA/ Player Role). It's also important to remember that the "average Attribute value" refers to both visible (ingame) and hidden Attributes


Here's some additional guidelines that I posted in my "researching guide" thread...
General principles
- Key and Essential Attributes will almost always be at the average or higher than the average Attribute value for the player's CA
- Non-Essential Attributes will almost always be noticeably lower than the average Attribute value for the player's CA
- Irrelevant Attributes will almost always be significantly lower than the average Attribute value for the player's CA


P.S. AFAIK these guidelines also affect practice/training, in that focusing on a player's development of a Regular/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attribute is not likely to result in robust development (especially with Non-Essential/Irrelevant Atts), while focusing on Key/Essential Attributes is. Additionally, at younger ages players are more likely to develop their Attributes "as expected for their Player Role" & if their CA is high enough they're more likely to become "a more complete player" as they grow older/gain experience

nino33 wrote:and there is no longer a minimum/maximum value.

I always found that a bit funny. That would have meant that no one in for example European top clubs could basically have more than 15 in speed or deking and such (which there are plenty of). I never cared of that "rule".
Those values basically meant that a player shouldn't have a 20 attribute in anything unless they're a 200 CA player.

On topic again...
The post above is very important for reserachers/database editors!!

jhcjobpb wrote:

nino33 wrote:and there is no longer a minimum/maximum value.

I always found that a bit funny. That would have meant that no one in for example European top clubs could basically have more than 15 in speed or deking and such (which there are plenty of). I never cared of that "rule".

Except in EHM07 as I recall 3 of the 4 skating Attributes essentially didn't develop (weren't affected by CA growth), so what you're describing didn't really happen

jhcjobpb wrote:

nino33 wrote:and there is no longer a minimum/maximum value.

Those values basically meant that a player shouldn't have a 20 attribute in anything unless they're a 200 CA player.

Yeah, that didn't really happen either as I recall (I think because there was a disconnect between the maximum Attribute value and the Technical Attributes.....NHL players regularly had almost all visible Attributes in the 18-20 range, with multiple values of 20, despite being nowhere near a 200 CA - essentially with EHM07 all players with a CA above 150 or 160 became 200 CA players with most/all of their technical Attributes)


The EHM07 guidelines were often very incorrect; AFAIK I was the only one that ever did extensive testing on EHM07 (or any testing really), and at first I got a lot of "push back" on my findings

Is there an updated player roles attributes chart somewhere? In the data testing thread, Riz mentioned some changes made in 1.4 that are not accounted in the chart above (like aggression changed to non-essential for snipers etc..).

Thanks!

landry2119 wrote:Is there an updated player roles attributes chart somewhere?

I contacted Riz and he's given me an updated listing of the Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes for each Player Role
I'm just transferring things into "TBL Table format" now, so I'll be posting the updated info very soon...

nino33 wrote:

landry2119 wrote:Is there an updated player roles attributes chart somewhere?

I contacted Riz and he's given me an updated listing of the Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes for each Player Role
I'm just transferring things into "TBL Table format" now, so I'll be posting the updated info very soon...

Thanks! Now it's time to create a new excel spreadsheet!

Here's the current Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes for each Player Role...

The chart below covers both wingers and centers (f = forward).

The only difference is the Faceoffs Attribute
- for centers Faceoffs is a Key Attribute
- for wingers Faceoffs is a Non-Essential Attribute

Player Role	Key Attributes	Essential Attributes	Non-Essential Attributes	Irrelevant Attributes
f_all_around	Positioning, WorkRate	Passing, Wristshot, Movement, Checking, Strength	Anticipation, Hitting, Vision, Deking	Fighting
f_finesse	Stickhandling, Deking	Passing, Anticipation, Wristshot, Movement, Vision	Strength, Bravery, Hitting	Fighting
f_grinder	Hitting, Checking	WorkRate, Fighting, Strength, Bravery, Deflections	Vision, Deking, Anticipation, Movement	Offensive Role
f_power_forward	Deflections, Hitting	Strength, Bravery, Wristshot, Aggression, Fighting	Stickhandling, Deking, Pokecheck, Vision	none
f_enforcer	Fighting, Aggression	Strength, Hitting, WorkRate, Bravery, Aggitation, Dirtiness	Anticipation, Slapshot, Wristshot, Vision, Passing, Stickhandling, Offensive Role	Flair
f_def	Positioning, Checking, Defensive Role	Pokecheck, Decisions, Passing, WorkRate, Strength	Anticipation, Slapshot, Vision, Stickhandling	Fighting, Offensive Role
f_def_finesse	Pokecheck, Positioning, Defensive Role	Passing, Decisions, Balance, Checking, Stickhandling	Movement, Hitting	Strength, Fighting, Offensive Role
f_def_physical	Hitting, Positioning, Defensive Role	Bravery, Decisions, Pokecheck, Checking, Strength	Wristshot, Vision, Deking, Slapshot	Fighting, Offensive Role
f_playmaker	Vision, Passing, Pass Tendency, Offensive Role	Movement, Anticipation, Stickhandling, Deflections, Deking	Positioning, Checking, Hitting, Slapshot	Fighting, Defensive Role
f_playmaker_finesse	Vision, Passing, Pass Tendency, Offensive Role	Stickhandling, Anticipation, Wristshot, Movement, Deking	Bravery, Hitting	Strength, Fighting, Defensive Role
f_playmaker_physical	Vision, Strength, Pass Tendency, Offensive Role	Passing, Anticipation, Hitting, Movement, Deflections	Positioning, Checking, Deking, Pokecheck	Fighting, Defensive Role
f_sniper	Wristshot, Slapshot, Offensive Role	Stickhandling, Movement, Anticipation, Deking, Deflections	Hitting, Checking, Pokecheck, Positioning	Pass Tendency, Defensive Role, Fighting
f_sniper_finesse	Wristshot, Anticipation, Offensive Role	Slapshot, Movement, Deflections, Deking, Stickhandling	Aggression, Bravery, Hitting	Strength, Pass Tendency, Defensive Role, Fighting
f_sniper_physical	Slapshot, Strength, Offensive Role	Anticipation, Wristshot, Hitting, Movement, Deflections	Positioning, Checking, Vision, Pokecheck	Pass Tendency, Defensive Role, Fighting

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Player Role	Key Attributes	Essential Attributes	Non-Essential Attributes	Irrelevant Attributes
d_off	Passing, Movement, Offensive Role	Wristshot, Pokecheck, Anticipation, Stickhandling, Vision	Deflections, Checking, Strength	Fighting, FaceOffs, Hitting
d_off_finesse	Vision, Passing, Offensive Role	Pokecheck, Movement, Slapshot, Wristshot, Stickhandling	Deflections, Bravery, Hitting	Fighting, FaceOffs, Strength
d_off_physical	Strength, Passing, Offensive Role	Hitting, Checking, Slapshot, Movement, Vision	Deflections, Bravery, Agility	Fighting, FaceOffs, Pokecheck
d_pointman	Slapshot, Passing, Offensive Role	Stickhandling, Vision, Positioning, Wristshot, Pokecheck	Deflections, Strength, Bravery, Deking, Hitting	Fighting, FaceOffs, Pass Tendency
d_pointman_finesse	Passing, Wristshot, Offensive Role	Pokecheck, Positioning, Anticipation, Slapshot, Stickhandling	Deflections, Bravery, Hitting	Fighting, FaceOffs, Pass Tendency, Strength
d_pointman_physical	Slapshot, Strength, Offensive Role	Bravery, Positioning, Checking, Hitting, Passing	Deflections, Wristshot, Vision	Fighting, FaceOffs, Pass Tendency, PokeCheck
d_playmaker	Vision, Passing, Pass Tendency, Offensive Role	Pokecheck, Positioning, Checking, Anticipation, Decisions	Deflections, Wristshot, Agility	Fighting, FaceOffs, Slapshot
d_playmaker_finesse	Vision, Passsing, Pass Tendency, Offensive Role	Pokecheck, Positioning, Checking, Slapshot, Wristshot, Stickhandling	Deflections, Bravery, Hitting	Fighting, FaceOffs, Strength
d_playmaker_physical	Vision, Passsing, Pass Tendency, Offensive Role	Pokecheck, Positioning, Checking, Hitting, Strength	Deflections, Wristshot, Agility	Fighting, FaceOffs, Slapshot
d_def	Positioning, Checking, Defensive Role	Pokecheck, WorkRate, Hitting, Decisions, Bravery	Deflections, Wristshot, Slapshot, Vision, Passing	Fighting, FaceOffs, Offensive Role
d_def_finesse	Positioning, Checking, Defensive Role	Pokecheck, Stickhandling, Agility, Decisions, Passing	Deflections, Movement, Hitting	Fighting, FaceOffs, Strength, Offensive Role
d_def_physical	Strength, Hitting, Defensive Role	Pokecheck, Positioning, Checking, Balance, WorkRate	Stickhandling, Passing, Wristshot, Movement	Fighting, FaceOffs, Deflections, Offensive Role
s_standard	Positioning, Checking, Defensive Role	Pokecheck, Decisions, Hitting, Passing, Strength	Deflections, Wristshot, Slapshot, Vision, Anticipation	none
d_rugged	Aggression, Hitting, Defensive Role	Strength, Checking, Fighting, Positioning, Bravery, WorkRate	Deflections, Deking, Passing, Wristshot, Vision	FaceOffs, Stickhandling, Offensive Role
d_enforcer	Fighting, Aggression	Agitation, Dirtiness, Strength, Positioning, Bravery, Hitting	Deflections, Speed, Passing, Vision, Wristshot, Slapshot	FaceOffs, Flair, Offensive Role

Player Role	Key Attributes	Essential Attributes	Non-Essential Attributes	Irrelevant Attributes
g_mixed	Positioning, Reflexes	Agility, Blocker, Glove, On-on-Ones, Rebounds	Acceleration, Deflections, Speed, Recovery	FaceOffs, Flair, Fighting, Strength
g_butterfly	Agility, Recovery	Blocker, Glove, On-on-Ones, Positioning, Reflexes	Acceleration, Deflections, Speed, Rebounds	FaceOffs, Flair, Fighting, Strength
g_standup	Positioning, Stickhandling	Blocker, Glove, On-on-Ones, Rebounds, Reflexes	Acceleration, Agility, Deflections, Speed	FaceOffs, Flair, Fighting, Strength
g_unorthodox	Agility, Flair	Blocker, Glove, On-on-Ones, Reflexes, Stickhandling	Acceleration, Deflections, Speed	FaceOffs, Fighting, Recovery, Strength

What means offensive role and defensive role in attribute table ? I don't see offensive role and defensive role as an attributes in the game ?

Filip Croatia wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:38 pm What means offensive role and defensive role in attribute table ? I don't see offensive role and defensive role as an attributes in the game ?

Offensive Role and Defensive Role are ratings that each player has that indicate their overall willingness/ability to play offensively/defensively. Offensive/Defensive Role are not visible ingame (but they are considered/referenced by your scouts in their scouting reports on players).

ok thanks for the explanation

Is it me or the tables for all attribute types are not showing properly anymore, due to the new website ? any way to format them properly ?

kev90 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:00 pm Is it me or the tables for all attribute types are not showing properly anymore, due to the new website ? any way to format them properly ?

It's not just you/it's because of the new website; I think in the future Archi would like to fix it if possible (I'm not aware of any way to format them properly)

nino33 wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:26 pm

kev90 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:00 pm Is it me or the tables for all attribute types are not showing properly anymore, due to the new website ? any way to format them properly ?

It's not just you/it's because of the new website; I think in the future Archi would like to fix it if possible (I'm not aware of any way to format them properly)

Yes that's exactly right. I need to apply the latest forum software patch/update soon and then I'll try again with the table formatting. I can't fathom why it is not working.

May I ask what attribute the 'vision' refers to? I don't recall seeing that in the editor. Thanks.

TurboJ wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:16 pm May I ask what attribute the 'vision' refers to? I don't recall seeing that in the editor. Thanks.

Vision = Creativity

nino33 wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:53 pm

Filip Croatia wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:38 pm What means offensive role and defensive role in attribute table ? I don't see offensive role and defensive role as an attributes in the game ?

Offensive Role and Defensive Role are ratings that each player has that indicate their overall willingness/ability to play offensively/defensively. Offensive/Defensive Role are not visible ingame (but they are considered/referenced by your scouts in their scouting reports on players).

What would an appropriate ratio of offensive to defensive role be? For purely offensive players like McDavid and Panarin what kind of impact is setting it to 20:0 going to have on stats?

CSPmyHart wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:42 pm What would an appropriate ratio of offensive to defensive role be? For purely offensive players like McDavid and Panarin what kind of impact is setting it to 20:0 going to have on stats?

The first post in this thread has some thoughts on Offensive/Defensive Role values and a link to the TBL Researcher Guidelines from 2012/13 with general guidelines for Offensive/Defensive Role values https://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/v ... 10&t=16778

I've never set any player to 20:0 ratio or anything like that (I've never really thought of them together/in terms of a ratio, more as two separate considerations). In the 2019-20 rosters McDavid has a 19 Offensive Role and 14 Defensive Role, Panarin has an 18 Offensive Role and 10 Defensive Role.

A higher Offensive Role definitely helps players produce better stats/more points (Consistency has a significant impact too)