EHM The Blue Line

I've always pondered about player's physical and technical stat potential.
For example: Evgeni Malkin in the Lidas/Manimal 2011/12 v3.2 Roster has 180/191 as current ability, he starts off with Acceleration:15, Checking: 13, Passing:18, Stamina: 14 , etc. etc.
I start two new game files with the same roster update, would the two Evgeni Malkins in both different game files have the exact same stats when they both reach their Potential Ability? OR can #1 Evgeni Malkin have better stats because he was surrounded by a tremendously better coaching staff team, brought up more carefully, etc. than #2 Evgeni Malkin playing in ECHL on the 4th line with two nobodys?

Yes. He will develop differently over time, depending upon the positions he is put in. He could develop because of coaching, playtime, practice time, who he plays with, who he does not...the league he is in, everything.

I have seen people develop Gilbert Brule (in original DB as a superstar...I did it in fact with Columbus in a challenge, and the years following. Yet...in many other games he flopped out. And later in games of my own..he flopped out.

Guys will develop differently from game to game. No question. I doubt they would have the same attributes in 2 consecutive EHM files, unless you got lucky. EVen if all was the same...team, coaches, linemates, play time, etc...the game could make him differently in each one, depending upon success.

I've been working on compiling data from 3 test seasons and looking at 125 different players (using UUDB 5.0)....I was looking at Height/Weight progression but also CA progression; any progression in CA would mean improved Attributes.

Malkin was part of the group of players I was looking at: in my testing he was 20 years old at start up and had a CA of 155 (and a 197 PA), and the results below showed how his CA progressed in the first couple years (shows CA at start-up, on 15-Oct-06, on 15-Oct-07 and on 15-Oct-08).

Note - CA frequenttly improves for players over the first six weeks (from game start-up to October 15th)

Test 1 - 155 - 159 - 167 - 168
Test 2 - 155 - 156 - 169 - 177
Test 3 - 155 - 164 - 170 - 173

As you can see Makin's first couple years of each "career" are different.....why? I agree with batdad...

batdad wrote:depending upon the positions he is put in. He could develop because of coaching, playtime, practice time, who he plays with, who he does not...the league he is in, everything

....it's what makes the game so great!

Regards

I completely agree that his stats will be different as he progresses but my main question was how does his stats compare when he has reached the ceiling of his Potential Ability of 191/191.
I wanted to know if once a player hits his Potential Ability, can his stats still improve or does PA act as a restriction, also can two fully developed Potential Ability Evgeni Malkins created from the same game database have the same stats even though one had a fantastic career while the other was a bench warmer
I'm sorry if I'm not explaining myself right but I'm doing the best I can

whatwasthat wrote:I wanted to know if once a player hits his Potential Ability, can his stats still improve

Stats (goals/assists/etc) are going to vary tremendously depending on team, teammates, coaching, etc - IMO if you had the exact same player playing for the exact same team with the exact same linemates and getting the exact same amount of ice time....you'll still have all the variables of your opponents! And any injury to any player would "change things"

Even in a "game" like EHM there are dozens of variables that interact every day of in-game play, and hundreds of variables in an in-game game.....and every time something happens everything is recalculated, so thousands of recalculations daily....if over a "career" you kept all of these calculations exactly the same while keeping the playing conditions of both Malkins exactly the same, and the opponents effect was kept exactly the same, IMO you'd get exactly the same stats (but in reality many of the thousands and thousands of " significant decions" made by themselves/others over their careers would be different, so this "sameness" would/could never actually occur)

Part of the "joy" of the game is that a player somewhere else might play better on your team (AND just because a player does "better" after leaving your team doesn't neccessarily mean they would have dome as well if kept on your team).....this is because of all of these "variables"

Regards

P.S. IMO the "numbers" I used are very conservative...I susoect is actually many millions of factors that would have to be kept exactly the same to compare the same player in the way you are talking
A player's Attributes would also vary "depending".....depending on things like practice time, coaching, facillities, injuries, etc. - and again I suspect IF the many many factors that would have an effect were kept exactly the same IMO you'd get the same "stats" (but this would/could never occur)

I think by "stats", he mean attributes.

pinheirobcp wrote:I think by "stats", he mean attributes

nino33 wrote:A player's Attributes would also vary "depending".....depending on things like practice time, coaching, facillities, injuries, etc. - and again I suspect IF the many many factors that would have an effect were kept exactly the same IMO you'd get the same "stats" (but this would/could never occur)

Oh, sorry, forget I ever said that!

pinheirobcp is right, I meant attributes this whole time . Thanks a lot guys, its good to know the players on my roster that have reached their Potential Ability can still get better attributes. I've wondered about that for a long time.
Cheers

whatwasthat wrote: its good to know the players on my roster that have reached their Potential Ability can still get better attributes

FYI I wasn't saying this...

I thought you were asking about TWO players (hypothetically), and saying if they were "the same' would they develop the same and would their attributes be the same...and my answer was really

nino33 wrote:this would/could never occur

You can't get two careers even close to "exactly the same"



BUT now that I fully understand what you're saying...IMO if you "maxed out" the player's PA then his attributes are probably also "maxed out" (and thus wouldn't increase) BUT my testing shows that players can reach their full potential, then fall back a bit, and then go up again (to the max) - so you might see a max, then a falling away a bit in a few attributes, and then back up again...

EXAMPLE (from my testing)
Malkin 155CA / 197PA

CA - Year
159 - 2006
167 - 2007
168 - 2008
179 - 2009
180 - 2010
188 - 2011
192 - 2012
196 - 2013
197 - 2014
196 - 2015
197 - 2016
197 - 2017
197 - 2018

At some point in the future i'm going to take my CA Development testing data and look at specific player Atrribute development (i.e. in the example above, do Malkin's Attributes change from 2016-2018, when his CA is maximized at 197 the whole time)....it might be a while before I do so, but when I do I'll post the results

Regards

Thanks a lot for your response nino33, I too have experienced some players lose a few attributes after a horrible season but it seems like you have quite a bit of research at your disposal, I'm glad to see the EHM community still strong. I guess its time to relocate some ice time towards my prospects instead of the veterans, now knowing that they cant improve after reaching their PA.

If I create 2 players in the pre-game editor, one with 50 CA, one with 60 CA, both with -10 PA

However, I gave the 50CA player higher attributes, faster, strong, etc, but still having a lot of 0's for random stats, both players only having 5-7 hard numbers in their attributes

What does this mean for development? Will the 50CA player be far better at 200, lets say, than the 60 at 200?

Im really confused

Did you start a game with these two players, and check their Attributes using the Saved-Game Editor? CA can "modify" the attributes at start-up (if a player's CA is to high or low for the Attributes given the game will modify the Attributes at start-up)
Also a PA of -10 creates a player whose postential falls between 170 and 200...your two players are probably going to get two different PA results at start-up

As far as I know the big difference between your players will be the obvious, that the 60CA player is better than the 50CA player initially.....

A player's Attributes vary "depending".....depending on things like practice time, coaching, facillities, injuries, etc. - how old are your players? A 50/60 CA is typically a player just entering Major Junior, with years of CA growth ahead of them before they get close to their PA (and during this time things like practice time, coaching, innjuries, etc can play a big part)

Animal31 wrote:What does this mean for development? Will the 50CA player be far better at 200, lets say, than the 60 at 200?

If both players have the same PA, and both develop/reach their PA, the CA they were at 15-16 years of age will make no difference when they're at their peak years later (and an identical CA/PA does not mean identical players)


Regards

nino33 wrote:Did you start a game with these two players, and check their Attributes using the Saved-Game Editor? CA can "modify" the attributes at start-up (if a player's CA is to high or low for the Attributes given the game will modify the Attributes at start-up)
Also a PA of -10 creates a player whose postential falls between 170 and 200...your two players are probably going to get two different PA results at start-up

As far as I know the big difference between your players will be the obvious, that the 60CA player is better than the 50CA player initially.....

A player's Attributes vary "depending".....depending on things like practice time, coaching, facillities, injuries, etc. - how old are your players? A 50/60 CA is typically a player just entering Major Junior, with years of CA growth ahead of them before they get close to their PA (and during this time things like practice time, coaching, innjuries, etc can play a big part)

Animal31 wrote:What does this mean for development? Will the 50CA player be far better at 200, lets say, than the 60 at 200?

If both players have the same PA, and both develop/reach their PA, the CA they were at 15-16 years of age will make no difference when they're at their peak years later (and an identical CA/PA does not mean identical players)


Regards

I realize a good chunk of the basics. IE, the negative potentials and all that

and as an example, I tested it with a 40 and a 70, and gave 5 in all attributes, they were all pretty much the same, the highest variation being 4

This is why im concerned about giving attribute points, and a high CA, as I belive it would mean that player has less room to develop