Ultimate Hockey Sim (Development Halted)

[dabo]

I like what I read, think it would be a lot of fun.

[archibalduk]

EDIT- Keep in mind that not every be a player career can turn out into you being a phenom hockey player. It all depends on how hard you work out, practice, and make the right decisions. You may not even make it to the NHL level (AHL'er for life). You could be the teams designated 3-4th liner.

I'm glad you say that. Personally, I'd like to see that it would be more likely that you'd end up in one of the minor leagues; e.g. USHL, AHL, CHL, etc. How many players in the world actually end up NHL quality anyway?

[philou21]

I think Dabo and USH project are both pretty cool. To me, one looks maybe more "arcade" and the other one more "realistic". This can bring a good balance by playing both games on my PC.

[CeeBee]

This is like going from no hope of a new hockey sim to overload all in the space of a few months. My hope is that at least one of Dabo or UHS_2010 don't flame out and leave us back where we started, especially after us all getting our hopes up..... oh so high So I'll be following both projects very very closely and keeping my fingers crossed.

[YZG]

just about everything in this game will be changed from EHM 07. Yes it may share some similar features, but this game is aimed towards the "ultimate" aspect of any simulation. What do i mean by this? It's simple! The full build of the game will include real life aspects. Why just be a manager when you can be a coach, scout, trainer, or even a PLAYER? Play your way from a low division as a 14 year old, all the way to a 19 year old phenom hockey prospect. Do you want to play juniors? Maybe college? Or work your way up from the ECHL? Train in the gym, increase your stats, talk to other players on the team, select your players tendencies.

The be a player mode is just the tip of the ice burg....

This is what I mean by "different".

I see. Logique Eclectic has created a game of this kind and to be honest, I didn't really like it - it'd actually be more accurate to say that I really didn't like it. But well, your concept is different and I'll be looking forward to try it. Good luck with it! I'll follow your progresses.

Out of curiosity, what kind of data will the game use? What leagues will you include? Will it only be about North American leagues or you can go play in Europe? And threaten your GM to go play in the KHL if the salary offers aren't good enough?

- YZG

[UHS_2010]

The first playable version will include North American playability ONLY. Although, the final build will include international, and some of the more popular foreign leagues (Russian super league, elite leagues, ect...). Right now we are trying to simplify the monster as much as possible, if that makes any sense. We are only a 2 man army over here lol.

Now that you mention salary offers....It really intrigues me how negotiations are done in real life. They are done behind the scenes, and with an agent. I am going to implement a system in the game that will enable the AI to throw you contract offers every once in a while. Why does this make sense? Say for instance you are a player, and you are playing for Chicago on the second line. The oilers approach you and say "hey if you come and play for us, we will ensure more playing time for you". If you accept this offer, you will request a trade from your team to the other. (not all requests are accepted for obvious reasons).

Same goes for a GM, he can request a contract termination, then sign with another team.

As for the be a player concerns...My goal is to implement a fun, curved, simulation experience. This means that I am going to add in challenges (sort of like quests), and hurdles for your player constantly. The goal is to have something new around the corner everytime you click the simulate button.

If this project dies, then Ill just help dabo with my knowledge. I am positive that either project will make it through.

[rottamies]

Now that you mention salary offers....It really intrigues me how negotiations are done in real life. They are done behind the scenes, and with an agent. I am going to implement a system in the game that will enable the AI to throw you contract offers every once in a while. Why does this make sense? Say for instance you are a player, and you are playing for Chicago on the second line. The oilers approach you and say "hey if you come and play for us, we will ensure more playing time for you". If you accept this offer, you will request a trade from your team to the other. (not all requests are accepted for obvious reasons).

Do they really do this in the NHL? I thought that there were rules against it, at least to some extent this sort of tampering must be prohibited in real life.

Other than that, i think the project sounds really interesting.

[Tasku]

I'm going to echo every one else and say, it sounds really cool, and being so much different than Dabo's project, we might all have to play both of them!

[bruins72]

Now that you mention salary offers....It really intrigues me how negotiations are done in real life. They are done behind the scenes, and with an agent. I am going to implement a system in the game that will enable the AI to throw you contract offers every once in a while. Why does this make sense? Say for instance you are a player, and you are playing for Chicago on the second line. The oilers approach you and say "hey if you come and play for us, we will ensure more playing time for you". If you accept this offer, you will request a trade from your team to the other. (not all requests are accepted for obvious reasons).

Do they really do this in the NHL? I thought that there were rules against it, at least to some extent this sort of tampering must be prohibited in real life.

Other than that, i think the project sounds really interesting.

You're exactly right, rottamies. It's called tampering. Teams are unable to contact players (or contact the player's agent about that player) that are under contract to another team. Once the player's contract has ended, a team could contact him and try to sign him to an offer sheet if the player's rights are still owned by that first team.

[Alessandro]

Lol come on people be serious. How is it possible that if a contract expires on 30th june then on 1st july morning players sign 10-year deals? Now, I understand that it might not be easy to implement, but imo it's something to think about.

[UHS_2010]

Now that you mention salary offers....It really intrigues me how negotiations are done in real life. They are done behind the scenes, and with an agent. I am going to implement a system in the game that will enable the AI to throw you contract offers every once in a while. Why does this make sense? Say for instance you are a player, and you are playing for Chicago on the second line. The oilers approach you and say "hey if you come and play for us, we will ensure more playing time for you". If you accept this offer, you will request a trade from your team to the other. (not all requests are accepted for obvious reasons).

Do they really do this in the NHL? I thought that there were rules against it, at least to some extent this sort of tampering must be prohibited in real life.

Other than that, i think the project sounds really interesting.

You're exactly right, rottamies. It's called tampering. Teams are unable to contact players (or contact the player's agent about that player) that are under contract to another team. Once the player's contract has ended, a team could contact him and try to sign him to an offer sheet if the player's rights are still owned by that first team.

This is true, BUT it is a rule that is loosely enforced. Knowing people who work for NHL organizations has its benefits . A team can make it clear that they are interested in you in many ways. If you go to NHL.com, you will see "team" interested in "player" articles all the time. I have my ways of implementing this

[dave1927p]

just about everything in this game will be changed from EHM 07. Yes it may share some similar features, but this game is aimed towards the "ultimate" aspect of any simulation. What do i mean by this? It's simple! The full build of the game will include real life aspects. Why just be a manager when you can be a coach, scout, trainer, or even a PLAYER? Play your way from a low division as a 14 year old, all the way to a 19 year old phenom hockey prospect. Do you want to play juniors? Maybe college? Or work your way up from the ECHL? Train in the gym, increase your stats, talk to other players on the team, select your players tendencies.

The be a player mode is just the tip of the ice burg....

This is what I mean by "different".

can i toss in Agent Mode? Imagine retiring as a player and starting your own 1 man agency and working into a bigtime company - then selling it and becoming a GM of an NHL team. That would be fantastic!

I really do like the sound of all that and wish you luck, but my biggest concern about player mode is that, in the past, it hasn't worked out. It simply isn't fun in a text sim. What you're thinking i'd love in BAP for EA series but the training and gameplay may be too tedious for me. I really hope you can change that though because i do love the idea.

I personally would just love to create my own player and let him and watch him develop as i do in EHM but have the control of where he goes (during free ageny and signing contracts) or being able to demand a trade...that's what i've always wanted in EHM.

I don't know about trainer mode, but scout mode or even an agent mode, sounds great as long as you can create another user or two . (like how EHM allows you to be more then one GM with more then one created guy)

Just my 2 cents

[Tasku]

I agree with Dave on the player mode being tedious and boring in many other games that have tried this. I don't remember the name of the game I last played this way, but their player mode included pushing on buttons for multiple choise of actions during a hockey game, and you would have to keep doing that thru the whole game. Very slow and, not fun at all.

I hope you find a way to implement playing as the player, that does not turn people away from the game, because the idea is very interesting, as long as the exectution also hits the mark!

[UHS_2010]

Ill do my best to make it as interesting as possible. Everyone in the community will also play a big part in how the be a player mode turns out. When people post things they would like to see, it helps me determine what I should aim for.

An agent type mode may be possible, but It will have to wait for the long run until added into the game.

Hopefully I can continue to build on it after the final release is complete.

[Saapas]

Are you planning that when you play with a player you would play the games (like EA Sports NHL or something?) I hope not... I hope this will truly be a simulator

[dave1927p]

Ill do my best to make it as interesting as possible. Everyone in the community will also play a big part in how the be a player mode turns out. When people post things they would like to see, it helps me determine what I should aim for.

An agent type mode may be possible, but It will have to wait for the long run until added into the game.

Hopefully I can continue to build on it after the final release is complete.

i could definately see myself playing as a GM, and having 4 or 5 created players in a player mode but as far as training them, at the most, would be to say something like "train wristshot/slapshot" or whatever every couple months and it'd be essential for picking their strategie/player traits; but i'd have no interest in training them weekly, or playing games with them. So for me to enjoy something like this would require some good AI and some type of customizable simplicity so i don't have to micromanage it all the time.


When i was younger i'd have a few notebooks filled with fictional players- drafted in different rounds from all countries- and i'd make their career stats with Age, Team, League, G, A Pts, Captain status, and salary (couldn't fit playoff stats on the page ) and i'd go through i ton of scenarios in my head writing out their stats.

Some kids played with action figurines, i did that lol (and i gotta admit, i still sometimes do it today but i won't have to if a game can scratch that itch ...that is my darkest secret, and i trust you all not to tell a soul

[dave1927p]

just to add what i said above and make it more simpler to understand:
all i'd really be interested in doing is creating a player with traits and what not, and making choices in his career but not have to micromanage anything...or target a ratio of attributes to go to throughout a year and similate the rest. That was my biggest problem with EA's BAP - i can't simulate anything...i prefer to simulate alot...even with EHM i go months and months and sometimes years without managing many aspects.

[YZG]

just to add what i said above and make it more simpler to understand:
all i'd really be interested in doing is creating a player with traits and what not, and making choices in his career but not have to micromanage anything...or target a ratio of attributes to go to throughout a year and similate the rest. That was my biggest problem with EA's BAP - i can't simulate anything...i prefer to simulate alot...even with EHM i go months and months and sometimes years without managing many aspects.

Haha, I'm a bit like that too. My most legendary EHM game lasted some 200 seasons through which I did little else than click "continue to next day", trade fringe players for as many draft picks as I could and observe what happened. Actually, the only thing that eventually made me stop that game was that I had heavily modified the nation ratios and grew fairly tired of renaming half of the draft class every season to more appropriate names.

What I like most is to watch things evolve, by themselves or because of what I do. I certainly love to manage teams, but I'm a big picture kind of guy, so I end up spending as much if not more time watching the evolution of everything rather than that of merely just my team or one single player. And games devoid of macroevolution don't last very long with me...

YZG

[UHS_2010]

Main concern will be making a reputable hockey sim that shares the features of ehm. Once I have found a formula everyone likes, I can then just build off of that.

[UHS_2010]

Expect a screen shot or 2 of the interface soon! What you will see is an older version of the current build (basically an interface with empty content)

[dabo]

Looking forward to it.

[archibalduk]

Looking forward to it.

Me too! Can't wait!

[UHS_2010]

The first screenshot is here! Please be patient with the graphics, as they are really only skin graphics that will be replaced. This is what the basic concept will look like in the end. Enjoy! I saw dabo's screen shots, and everything was much more technical. We wanted to go for a more arcade-ish look, if that makes sense .

[archibalduk]

As quoted below, the Ultimate Hockey Simulator project has been indefinitely discontinued:

Sorry for the giant delay in updates guys, I have been overwhelmed with work, and college...

I hate to say, but there has been no progress since my last update. Why? The first reason is the fact that I lost my other team member. He was much more experienced in c++, and was able to help me understand and "create" each feature in the game.

The last reason is a result of the first. I am buried in c++ code, and do not have the knowledge to continue the project.

This doesnt mean the game isnt scrapped FOREVER. It means that it is scrapped until I can understand more about the code I have in the game, and continue from where I left off.

Original message:

I'm very pleased to announce that UHS_2010 now has his own subforum to discuss his Ultimate Hockey Simulator project. As with Dabo's project, we want to do everything we can to help and support UHS_2010 with his project. It's such great news for the TBL and EHM communities that we have two enthusiastic groups of people working on new hockey management games - and that they're both so keen to get the community involved.

If you want to discuss a specific area of the game (be that a suggestion for the first version of his game or something you would like to see in the future) then please feel free to start a new topic in the DHM Forum to discuss it. Clearly there is going to be some cross-over/duplication in the discussion in this forum and in Dabo's forum. This is clearly unavoidable as both projects are working towards the same goal - a new hockey management game. As both projects will have partially (or wholly) different approaches it's only right that we allow discussion on the same topics in each forum. So don't worry if you're repeating bits from the Dabo forum in the UHS forum and vice-versa.

[bruins72]

It's nice to see a start of things! Keep up the good work!