100% Canadian NHL (Fantasy DB)

[pinheirobcp]

Hello everyone, long time reader but not much of a poster here.

Been working on this project for a couple of weeks. I've been playing EHM since the freeware version and have save games on EHM07 that reach 2050's, so modding has been a great way to keep me entertained. I've been only learning recently how to properly mod things, but everything has been great, despite de set backs due to inability to change some hard-coded things. Anyway....


With the Jets move to Winnipeg recently, I've started developing this fantasy DB with a fully Canadian NHL, and a Fully canadian minor/feeder league. Basically, it goes like this:

All real canadian teams remain as they are. I have ressurected past Canadian NHL/WHA/NHA/AHL teams, like the Quebec Nordiques, Vancouver Millionaires, Montreal Maroons, Hamilton Tigers, Toronto St. Pat's, Winnipeg Falcons, Victoria Cougars, Quebec Aces and Regina Capitals, New Brunswick Hawks, Halifax Citadels

Some former Major Junior Leagues/CIS teams are now NHL teams, like the Sherbrooke Castors, Laval Voisin, Saskatchewan Huskies and some fantasy teams, the Missisauga Nationals, London Racers, Newfoundland Islanders, British Columbia Express, Bramptom Bears, Edmonton Eskimos and Kitchener-Waterloo Greenshirts.

Total: 30 teams, as spread out as I could make, keeping large metropolitan areas as priority.

I have rewritten the Canadian Major Junior leagues, resurecting past teams,

WHL: Flin Flon Bombers, Nanaimo Islanders, Penticton Knights, New Westminster Bruins, Victoria Royals, Calgary Centennials, Edmonton Oil Kings, replacing the USA-based teams, Chilliwack Bruins (replaced by New Westminster) and Calgary Hitmen (replaced by the Centennials).

OHL: Cornwall Royals, North Bay Centennials, Hamilton Steelhawks, replacing USA-based teams

QMJHL: Montreal Junior Canadiens, Granby Bisons, Hull Olympiques, Verdun-College Français, replacing the Lewiston MAINEiacs, Saint John Sea Dogs, Gatineau Olympiques, and St. John's Fog Devils, respectively.

The AHL has become a fully canadian minor league, compromised of:

past Canadian AHL Teams (Saint John Flames, Fredericton Express, Moncton Alpines, Cornwall Aces, Quebec Citadelles, Nova Scotia Voyageurs, PEI Senators),

present day AHL/ECHL teams (Abbotsford Heat, Hamilton Bulldogs, Toronto Marlies, Victoria Salmon Kings)

and past teams from CIS/Major Junior/Defunct leagues (Ottawa Nationals, Nermarket Saints, Surrey Eagles, Trail Smoke Eaters, Toronto Toros, Laval Titan, Windsor Lancers, Regina Cougars, Calgary Wranglers, Kelowna Spartans, Guelph Gryphons, Nanaimo Clippers, Sudbury Cubs, Niagara Falls Flyers, Winnipeg Warriors)


The USA teams have formed a USA League (yet to be named ), with

present day teams (most of them), Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins, New York Rangers, St. Louis Blues, Detroit Red Wings, Washington Capitals, Los Angeles Kings, Chicago Blackhawks, Alaska Aces, Portland Pirates

and past teams, Hartford Whalers, Colorado Rockies, Kansas City Scouts, Seattle Totems, Atlanta Flames, New York Americans, California Seals, Minnesota North Stars, Houston Aeros, Indianapolis Racers, Cleveland Barons, Detroit Cougars, with the league (and teams) having NHL-like reputation

With teams possibily being added further. It will be a non-playable league, since I can't find a playable league that fits the criteria necessary.

The ECHL will become a (yet to be done) American-based minor league, with teams like the Rochester Americans, San Diego Mariners, San Jose Sharks, Florida Panthers, Chicago Wolves, Springfield Indians, Milwalkee Admirals and many others, totalling 25 (obviously).

Everything is almost done, and I would certainly like to share this with anyone interested in the EHM community.

As I said, some things are yet to be done, but the NHL and AHL is all done (team colours, Arenas, staff, reputations, budgets).

I have added some tweaks aswell, like making the European leagues closer reputation-wise to the NHL, and making the RSL more resembling the actual KHL.

I would really like to make the USA league playable, but I can make them the ECHL/AHL due to veteran rules making them inerently a development league, and european leagues have foreigner rules aswell.

I've been trying to make the Russian league the USA league, by making RSL's nation the United States. It almost works, (American players are considered home players, and russians become the foreigners) but I can't take control of teams in-game with this.

I would really like some input into this. What do you guys think? Suggestions? Is it interesting?

[pinheirobcp]

darn, it was quite a long post...

I would just like to add, Russian players will be transfered to Russia (mainly their former teams), so Malkin/Ovechkin/Kovalchuk will the in Russia to start the game. Same with American/Swedish/Finnish players. I'm working on how to keep them there long-term.

Also, I would like to add, I've been in test mode for a couple of weeks, and could sim the entire first season crash-free.

The only crash I've had is when I try to rename leagues, the game doesn't even load (I've discussed this on another thread), so I'm basically giving up on trying to rename leagues/divisions.

Also, I'm still working on how the division reallignment will be for the NHL, but I'm leaning towards a MLB-like scenario, getting away from geographics.

[Primis]

You using real players?

You could theoretically use the UHL to house the top USA league teams. That way it's playable, and you could set the salary cap up for it along with reps up. However that's not going to get you a ton of playable USA teams, just some. If you're using AHL and ECHL for Canada, you could use C(entral)HL and SPHL as farms for the USA.

[pinheirobcp]

You using real players?

You could theoretically use the UHL to house the top USA league teams. That way it's playable, and you could set the salary cap up for it along with reps up. However that's not going to get you a ton of playable USA teams, just some. If you're using AHL and ECHL for Canada, you could use C(entral)HL and SPHL as farms for the USA.

I strongly consider making the UHL (All-american Hockey league) as the primary USA league, since they don't have veteran/development rules (as far as I know). The number of teams is the real killer, though. However, it's not set on stone yet.

And yes, real players, it's an unmodified DB as far as players, with "only" transactions for Russians/Swedish/Finnish/American players.

[Tyees]

Idea:

Make the canadian team affiliates only throughout ECHL, UHL, CHL up reps, finiances, etc.

Make the AHL the all american league, fitting name.

Lower the popularity of all the russian, swedish, finnish stars etc so they wont be signed so quickly.

[pinheirobcp]

Idea:

Make the canadian team affiliates only throughout ECHL, UHL, CHL up reps, finiances, etc.

Make the AHL the all american league, fitting name.

Lower the popularity of all the russian, swedish, finnish stars etc so they wont be signed so quickly.

Thanks for the advices, but the issue with making the American League something more then a farm team league is the veteran rules, wich I believe are hard-coded and can't be changed.

I have made the AHL a farm league to the Canadian NHL, despite the name, mainly because it doesn't have roster size limits (the ECHL teams can only carry 20 players on rosters, and dress 18). And it's a playable league. The only drawback, really, is the name.

I'm yet to know what to do with the ECHL. I have been unable to come up with 25 extra teams on Canada (after having 57 teams, combining NHL and AHL).

And many thanks for the advice on player reputation, I'll do it and run some tests!

[Tyees]

My mistake! Got excited and forgot those minor details

[pinheirobcp]

I'm having trouble keeping American players on the USA-based league so far.

I'm doing ok with the Russians/Swedish/Finnish players, keeping them in their leagues long-term by editing player/league reputation and contracts.

But, since the USA league is in North America, highly rated player sign with the NHL all-year long.

And maybe because it's a non-playable league, all it's players have AHL-level contracts (at most 400k) no matter what I do in the editor. Their league reputation is 20 (on par with the NHL) and team budgets/reputation is on par or above the NHL teams.

I'm almost throwing this American-players-in-American-teams idea out through the window...

[nino33]

I've been working on making a retro/1974 db, and while a lot of time has been spent on editing players I've also encountered many of the challenges you are facing...

I'm doing ok with the Russians/Swedish/Finnish players, keeping them in their leagues long-term by editing player/league reputation and contracts

That's great! Have you had any issues witth the "NHL Release Clause"? How far forward have you tested?
I have found that the DEL and the Czech league have players that will come to NA too...
Have you checked the in-game NA drafts for 2007-2008-2009 to see if they're drafting the particular type (nationality) of players you want them to?.....

I'm having trouble keeping American players on the USA-based league so far.

There are other factors to consider beyond League Reputation, and it looks like you've considered most.....have you looked at player Ambition and player Loyalty as well? ALSO front office staff (Chairman/GM) may be low in the Patience Atttribute and so be more inclined to "shake things up' and thus players change teams/leagues.....and/or it might be Free Agents movement and "waiver issues" (see below)

Their league reputation is 20 (on par with the NHL)

If another league is "equal" to the NHL then players IMO it would be natural for players to move back and forth...

team budgets/reputation is on par or above the NHL teams.

Apparently budget changes don't take effect unless you also edit all individual player contracts as well (so they add up to the new budget amounts) ALSO have you consdered the effect of contracts/waivers? Without extensive editing there is a HUGE amount of player movement because of season starting roster size restrictions....the need to send players down to the minors after training camp brings up "waiver issues" AND at start-up there are hundreds of Free Agents...and hundreds of Canadians/Americans playing overseas and all of these players will move around too (without extensive editing)...


Regards

[pinheirobcp]

I've been working on making a retro/1974 db, and while a lot of time has been spent on editing players I've also encountered many of the challenges you are facing...

I've been following your post, and look forward to it, alltough your challenge it certainly greater then mine

That's great! Have you had any issues witth the "NHL Release Clause"? How far forward have you tested?
I have found that the DEL and the Czech league have players that will come to NA too...
Have you checked the in-game NA drafts for 2007-2008-2009 to see if they're drafting the particular type (nationality) of players you want them to?.....

Players still have release clauses, but (specially the star players) have their teams as their favourite teams (and the team has them as favourite staff). I think that really helps. And since the Russian League has very high reputation, players are "very happy with their role in *team* unwilling to move to north america".

However, when I said long-term, maybe it was a strech. Some players still come over to NA, and free agents prefer to sign in the NHL then in Europe.

For the Draft, European players are still drafted normally, but I've seen that very few (if any at all) come over as teens to Major Junior Hockey in Canada.

There are other factors to consider beyond League Reputation, and it looks like you've considered most.....have you looked at player Ambition and player Loyalty as well? ALSO front office staff (Chairman/GM) may be low in the Patience Atttribute and so be more inclined to "shake things up' and thus players change teams/leagues.....and/or it might be Free Agents movement and "waiver issues" (see below)

If another league is "equal" to the NHL then players IMO it would be natural for players to move back and forth...

I haven't added so muh depth, so i'll look into it. I haven't added managing staff for American Teams.

I have also tried making the USA-based league reputation 20, and the NHL reputation 17, and players still sign in the NHL

Apparently budget changes don't take effect unless you also edit all individual player contracts as well (so they add up to the new budget amounts) ALSO have you consdered the effect of contracts/waivers? Without extensive editing there is a HUGE amount of player movement because of season starting roster size restrictions....the need to send players down to the minors after training camp brings up "waiver issues" AND at start-up there are hundreds of Free Agents...and hundreds of Canadians/Americans playing overseas and all of these players will move around too (without extensive editing)...

I have eddited both team budget and players contracts, but had no sucess. The roster are sized accordingly, not too big or too small, and there are no roster limits in non-playable league.

Maybe the fact that it is a non-playable league is the real issue... However, european star players have relatively low salaries as well, depite the editor.

Controlling player moviment has been my achilles tendon, really. Well, that, and making logos for the new teams (about 50 of them, lol). I stink at that.

*Edit* I would just like to add, thanks a lot for the input!

[pinheirobcp]

Getting away a little bit from the in-depth works of editing, I would like to ask for some input about the teams/cities I used. Getting 30 NHL teams in Canada was a real challenge.

I tried to make it in such a way that it's not like the USA/Canada teams split in 2006, but as if they split in the early 1900's.

So, it is made in such a way that history has been re-writen.

Since the NY Americans never folded, there are no NY Islanders. Same with the Colorado Avalanche, New Jersey Devils (formerly the KS Scouts) and San Jose Sharks (California Seals, I believe) and Atlanta Flames.

But this is somewhat selective, because there are both the Detroit Cougars and Detroit Red Wings, when the former became the later in reality. I simply couldn't get myself to make the Red Wings invalid. The Calgary Flames also exist, despite them coming from the Atlanta Flames (that also exists).

Some teams, like the Nashville Predators and Anaheim Ducks simply never came to existence. This is mostly due to having terrible names (alltough I love the Ducks movies ). Other expansion teams are minor league teams now, like the Florida Panthers and Columbus Blue Jackets.

I've done a lot of research on historical teams, and only really created a couple of teams. A lot of teams come from real past Canadian teams from the AHL, like the Fredericton Express, Halifax Citadels, and others.

Some come from major junior, with Sherbrooke Castors and Laval Voisins beeing possibly the coolest team names ever.

Old time teams, like Winnipeg Falcons, Hamilton Tigers, Vancouver Millionaires, Quebec Aces, Victoria Cougars, Montreal Maroons, Toronto St. Pat's never ceased to exist, and they have a couple of Stanley Cups to their credit in the fantasy past (replacing teams like the Boston Bruins, Philadelphia Flyers and Detroit Red Wings).

The Kitchener-Waterloo Greenshirts really are a real team (surprisingly). It's a really cool name, but for the life of me I couldn't find their logo/jerseys.

Mississauga Nationals (and their really cool logo, I'll upload it), Britsh Columbia Express (inspired on BCHL's Burnaby Express), Edmonton Eskimos (CFL rip off), Brampton Bears and Newfoundland Islanders (vintage NY Islanders lighthouse logo) are teams I truly "created".

Some cities/regions are somewhat overloaded with teams. British Columbia has 5 teams, plus another couple of minor league teams. Calgary and Edmonton have two teams each, as does Winnipeg, Quebec and Ottawa. All included, Ontario has 9 teams in the NHL alone! But really, it's the best I could do.

[nino33]

Players still have release clauses

IIRC by reducing player Reputation to 70-70-20 (or something like that) I got rid of all the NHL Release Clauses! As long as the player was over age 20; I gave them 10-11 year contracts and they stay put long term, and never leave for the NHL!

Maybe the fact that it is a non-playable league is the real issue

That may be...I've done nothing with non-playable leagues beyond creating my "minor hockey leahues" for ages 6-12 (and as "kids leagues" they're not the same as yours)

Controlling player moviment has been my achilles tendon, really.

It's taken awhile, and a lot of trial and error, but I have had some success at this so have faith! But it does take a lot of time/effort (the really cool thing about EHM is the world is so big and detailed and interconnected....the challenge with editing EHM is the world is so big and detailed and interconnected!)

free agents prefer to sign in the NHL then in Europe.

IF you wanted to you could use the editor search functions to "find" the talented Free Agents that are moving about at game start-up, and you could "sign them" to teams in leagues where you wanted them to be playing using the editor.....

thanks a lot for the input!

You are most welcome!

[pinheirobcp]

Players still have release clauses

IIRC by reducing player Reputation to 70-70-20 (or something like that) I got rid of all the NHL Release Clauses! As long as the player was over age 20; I gave them 10-11 year contracts and they stay put long term, and never leave for the NHL!

I was pretty sure NHL release clause were regulated by CA/PA, but maybe that's two-way/No-trade clauses. Well, thanks! I'll run some tests when I have the time (drowning on College work right now!)

free agents prefer to sign in the NHL then in Europe.

IF you wanted to you could use the editor search functions to "find" the talented Free Agents that are moving about at game start-up, and you could "sign them" to teams in leagues where you wanted them to be playing using the editor.....

I've done that, there are no (notable) free agent Europeans at game start. However, after a few seasons, they become free agents and sign with an NHL team.

Maybe 10-11 years contracts are the only solution to this. It's great for historical databases, because if you start in 1979, by the late 80's Euro players start coming to the NHL through draft/whatnot. But there doesn't seem to be a way to make the Europeans stay in Europe long term (and I mean long time, like 50 years).

[nino33]

I was pretty sure NHL release clause were regulated by CA/PA, but maybe that's two-way/No-trade clauses.

I've read about the CA/PA and player age affecting 2 Way contracts, and Reputation and age affecting No Trade contracts, but haven't tested it yet (I think a player had to 32 or older with a Repuation of 140 or greater to get a No Trade at start-up, but again I haven't tesed/confirmed this.....but I am hoping it works!)

Maybe 10-11 years contracts are the only solution to this. It's great for historical databases,

EXACTLY! The 1974 db has many 3-7 year contracts for talented historical Swedes/Finns because they should be coming over in the late 70s and early 80s (the Russians all have 11 year contracts as that's the best i can do...keeps them away until the late 80s instead of early 90s IRL)

there doesn't seem to be a way to make the Europeans stay in Europe long term (and I mean long time, like 50 years).

Not that I'm aware of, no......my 1974 db really affects the worldwide talent pool. Outside of the historical players there are no other players with a CA/PA greater than 100 anywhere (even the variable PA amounts have been edited to remove any potential greater than 100) - I wonder if this will affect things such that most Europeans/Russians will stay in Europe/Russia over generations (because the initial players regens won't be any better than 100 either)....

[pinheirobcp]

The only way I can think of for making Europeans stay in Europe looooong-term is making then stink.

But that's more like making Hockey a Canada-US-only sport.

This latest part (Americans in the US, Europeans in Europe) wasn't part of my inital plans for the DB, that's why I'm close to throwing this out of the window. It is much more necessary to your historical DB, and you've been doing this quite well it seems.

Since European prospects will still be quite good in my DB, they'll come over to the NHL early in their careers and there doesn't seem to be a point in fighting this. Oh well, it will make for some interesting free agency, still.

[Midas]

If you want players to stay in their respective leagues, past people working on similar dbs have generally said that it's actually league finances more than reputation that effects staying power. Give European teams more money and they'll hang onto their players; likewise, give these AHL teams more market and buying power and they'll hang onto their players.

[nino33]

past people working on similar dbs have generally said that it's actually league finances more than reputation that effects staying power

Interesting......I've not read/heard this before (but I've read/experienced the opposite in my testing thus far).....can you give any examples? I'm asking because of my work on the 1974 db and my desire to learn

Give European teams more money and they'll hang onto their players; likewise, give these AHL teams more market and buying power and they'll hang onto their players.

I've seen lots of posts about the NHL Release Clause causing players to seek out the NHL regardless of changes to league reputations/finances or player contracs (the game seemss hardcoded to make the NHL the most desireable), and I experiencced the same in my testing (the workaround was lowering player Reputation to like 70-70-20...these players didn't "recieve" NHL Rekease Clauses at game start-up)

give these AHL teams more market and buying power and they'll hang onto their players.

Can't any NHL team sign any AHL signed player anytime they want? Wouldn't that make it pretty much impossible for an AHL team to hold onto a good player?

Regards

[Midas]

The NHL is the only league that needs a release clause. Non-NHL teams just literally buy other players' contracts on transfer agreements (like European soccer). There might be some things hardcoded to make the NHL very desirable, and as the only major league with a drafting mechanic it is imo. the best designed. However, give other league's comparable reputations (2000 league reputation or w/e it is, 8000+ team ones) and the same finances (30-40 mil internal caps with lots of spending money, market ratings above 14) and they should end up keeping most of their players.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what was suggested on another boards (it might also come with lowering the NHL's reputation too I forget).

Interesting......I've not read/heard this before (but I've read/experienced the opposite in my testing thus far).....can you give any examples? I'm asking because of my work on the 1974 db and my desire to learn

I've seen lots of posts about the NHL Release Clause causing players to seek out the NHL regardless of changes to league reputations/finances or player contracs (the game seemss hardcoded to make the NHL the most desireable), and I experiencced the same in my testing (the workaround was lowering player Reputation to like 70-70-20...these players didn't "recieve" NHL Rekease Clauses at game start-up)

Can't any NHL team sign any AHL signed player anytime they want? Wouldn't that make it pretty much impossible for an AHL team to hold onto a good player?

Regards

[nino33]

The NHL is the only league that needs a release clause.

I'm not sure what you mean by "needs'...the NHl Release Clause means any player signed anywhere in the world can be "signed away" by an NHL team without fullfilling their current contract; baasically if they have an NHL Release Clause any contract with a European/Russian club is meaningless

Non-NHL teams just literally buy other players' contracts on transfer agreements (like European soccer).

I understand...I'm saying the NHL Release Clause overrules anything else. An NHL team doesn't have to work out a transfer agreement, they just sign/take the player

Regards

[pinheirobcp]

I'm still working on this, haven't had to time to test yet. I changed players World Reputation to very low (like, 15, from 150+) and edited players/clubs preferences to have eachother as favourite staff/club

Also, it seems some players who were consistently transfered on every test I made still had their rights owned by the NHL teams (i.e. Gionta and Gomez still had NHL rights, and were signed every darn time!), this probably had some effect into it.

Anyway, I'm kind of drowning on College work this week, but I'll sim a season soon enough and will share the results.

[nino33]

I'm still working on this

Good to hear!

it seems some players who were consistently transfered on every test I made still had their rights owned by the NHL teams

I'm not fully understanding what you're saying here, but you can remove Rights in the pre=Game Editor if you want.....or are you saying these players are leaving for Europe when you want them in the NHL? If that's the case you could try lowering Adaptability for guys like Gionta/Gomez so they'll be less likely to leave NA (or "sign them" using the Pre-Game Editor)

Regards

[pinheirobcp]

I'm not fully understanding what you're saying here, but you can remove Rights in the pre=Game Editor if you want.....or are you saying these players are leaving for Europe when you want them in the NHL? If that's the case you could try lowering Adaptability for guys like Gionta/Gomez so they'll be less likely to leave NA (or "sign them" using the Pre-Game Editor)

Regards

What I mean is I thougth I had removed their NHL rights, but had not! This obviously made their transfer easier. I've corrected it now. They are player for the Kansas City Scouts but had rights for the London Racers, and signed there everytime within days.

[pinheirobcp]

Does anyone know if there is a way to control college/europe/major junior preference on regen players?

I mean, in the editor, you can control if a certain youngster prefers one of the three, but does anyone know if it passes on to the regen(s) of this said player?

I don't know if I was clear... For example, will Toews' regen prefer the college route, or it's randomized?

[pinheirobcp]

Hello,

The database per se is almost done. All teams for NHL, AHL, WHL, QMJHL, OHL and MLH (Major League Hockey, All-USA league) are done, with logos.

The idea of having American-born players on USA-based teams (therefore, out of the NHL) was a complete fail. Since they're based in North America, they basically could be signed by NHL teams at any moment. I have, thus, thrown this idea out of the window.

I've had better sucess keeping Europeans our on Europe, but it's still mixed results.

Since last update, I made some changes, namely killing the Calgary Flames (replaced by Calgary Royals, awesome logo), added Granby Bisons to the QMJHL, and other changes.

I've been thinking of waiting for the updated Lidas for the Custom Start Date patch before releasing this DB, since the CSD Patch is the hottest thing in town right now, and deserverdly so. What do you think?

The current "made" DB is based on a modified-by-myself Original DB.

[nino33]

The database per se is almost done.

Congrats!

I've been thinking of waiting for the updated Lidas for the Custom Start Date patch before releasing this DB, since the CSD Patch is the hottest thing in town right now, and deserverdly so. What do you think?
The current "made" DB is based on a modified-by-myself Original DB.

IMO if your player ages are set for 2006 (original BB) there's no real reason to use the CSD patch.....if one wanted to start in the current year, I think you'd have to do more editing to make the DB function as intended (it seems changing the start date from 2006 to 2011 results in Rights being lost, and issues with Contract length)
I guess it depends a bit on how much you have "modified" the DB.....have you added players who have turned pro since 2006? If the DB has all "current players" then a 2011 start date makes more sense to me...

That's my two cents...

Regards