1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[Tyees]

In regards to Euros you don't want to come over to NA, could you give them 11 year contracts (or whatever is the max) and then in the Config file have them sign a new contract with the team to give them even more years? Plus it would stop any other transfer over the 11 years I believe.

[nino33]

In regards to Euros you don't want to come over to NA, could you give them 11 year contracts (or whatever is the max) and then in the Config file have them sign a new contract with the team to give them even more years? Plus it would stop any other transfer over the 11 years I believe.

Thanks for the idea Tyees. I don't know how to have a player "sign a new contract" using the Extra Config File.....can you tell me how? What exactly do I need to type? and where in the Extra Config File do I type it?

I have wondered if I can use the Extra Config File to "suspend" a player for a few years, so I can have historical players who are only a year or two old in the database who will actually start playing hockey at a later age (age 6).....and this method might also allow the inclusion of players "not yet born at game start-up".....in future weeks/months I'll be looking into this further

[Manimal]

# Future transfers
#
"FUTURE_TRANSFER" "First_name" "Last-Name" "Old_team" "New_team" day month year transfer_fee salary contract_length_in_years

I don't think things must be in the same order in the extra-Config file.
Open the default rosters with the editor and look at that file. It contains info on how a lot of things (for example, suspensions) should be arranged in the extra_config file.

The work you do in the editor overruns the actual extra_config file so don't write in the file separately

[Primis]

I've been obsessed with Minecraft and playing NHL on my 360 lately, but glad to see this is still pushing onward.

RE: suspending super young players and not making their leagues, I think that's a recipe to have the game regen them, I think they still need to be on a roster for the game to hold them.

Then again I could be wrong... but from my experience, that'd be my take.

[YZG]

Agreed. If they're not on a roster, sooner or later, they'll say they can't sustain themselves playing hockey and quit. I doesn't sound very logical from 6 years olds, but well, EHM wasn't made for that

- YZG

[nino33]

# Future transfers
#
"FUTURE_TRANSFER" "First_name" "Last-Name" "Old_team" "New_team" day month year transfer_fee salary contract_length_in_years

Thanks Manimal. With a 1974 Start Date (thanks Archi!), if I gave a 14 year old Vladimir Krutov an 11 year contract that expired on April 30, 1985.....to " resign" him do I just have the Old Team and New Team be the same team? And what day/month do I use? And can the fee be $0?


In regards to players under age 6 or "not yet born" I'm many months away from giving it a try, and if it doesn't work I'm OK with that as I'm pretty happy with the idea of 12+ years of historical drafts

[Manimal]

# Future transfers
#
"FUTURE_TRANSFER" "First_name" "Last-Name" "Old_team" "New_team" day month year transfer_fee salary contract_length_in_years

Thanks Manimal. With a 1974 Start Date (thanks Archi!), if I gave a 14 year old Vladimir Krutov an 11 year contract that expired on April 30, 1985.....to " resign" him do I just have the Old Team and New Team be the same team? And what day/month do I use? And can the fee be $0?

The future transfer must go through before his contract ends. The fee can be set as 0
I have never tested this with contract extensions like you want to have so I have no idea if it works

[kabbott50]

This STILL sounds unreal. How's it coming along? And do you need any help?

[nino33]

This STILL sounds unreal. How's it coming along? And do you need any help?

I've been getting about 1-3 hours done every day (more on weekends)...not only did I lose all of the work I did this summer, I lost the TIME (because I work in the school system, I had July/August 100% off)

My focus recently has been on removing all "modern" players with a CA/PA over 100...so far I've removed (made Invalid) over 1500 players
I then have to move 500+ historical players from "placeholder teams" to their proper teams (when I'm going through and removing modern players I put historical players I come across on placeholder teams to maintain work flow)
AND I have to add Staff to all the NHL teams, and complete work on initial historical European/Russian players

When the above is done I'll once again be where I was in early August (and again in early September!)...I will once again be close to releasing a "test version" - given the reality of life/work it'll be many weeks at least...

In regards to " help" I say thanks much but I work on it every day, and much of my prep work is on paper (for example, I have complete historical AHL rosters with CA calculated on paper)...so I'm not sure what help could be given on the actual database (unless a way to import data is discovered db editing is a slow, tedious, one change at a time process)

I'm working on it!

[pinheirobcp]

It's great that you're still working on this, it's by far the coolest DB project ever!

Looking forward to testing it. I'll certainly play juniors. Can you imagine drafting and grooming guys that are now HOFers?

[pinheirobcp]

Just so I pass on what I've experienced.

So far in my testing, I'm pretty sure that NHL release clause can be controled solely by reputation.

In my testing, by setting a Home/Current/World reputation all at around 10 to 15, you can set the contracts just as you like, and CA/PA aswell. The player won't have a NHL-release clause.

I don't have the exact numbers, but it seems like, at over 25 on reputation, the release clause comes up.

In testing, players like Ovechkin and Sedin(s) stayed in Europe for the duration of their (11 years) contract.

[nino33]

Just so I pass on what I've experienced.

Thank you very much for doing so!

Did it work for players at/under age 20?
I too found I could control the NHL Relause Clause by lowering Reputation (to about 80 IIRC), but it did NOT work for players who started the game at/under age 20.

AND the other problem is I think the National Teams are chosen by Reputation; I really wanted the 1974 db to have historical players in the international competitions...

Again, I really appreciate your sharing what you've learned

Regards

[pinheirobcp]

I have tested it, it works with a 20yo Ovechkin. He has an 11 years contract, no NHL-release clause, 10 for Home/Current/World reputation and yes, he goes to the National Team.

He even had ridiculous numbers in the Euro Hockey tour. His reputation rises in time, and rather quickly, but his contract stays the same, of course.

I would say it is probably the Current reputation (wich, I believe, is his reputation in his Team) that dictates the presence of a NHL-release clause, but I'm not sure.

I'll get back if I find something else.

[pinheirobcp]

Also, Andrei Markov, a 27yo with exact same contract and reputation of 155/155/35, has a NHL-release clause.

If I offer a contract to any of them, they accept it, but Ovechkin becomes a future transfer for 11-years from now

[nino33]

it works with a 20yo.....he goes to the National Team.

Does it work with teenagers too?

That's interesting that even though his Reputation was 10 he still made the National Team......before I removed "modern players" with a CA/PA above 100 I found that lowering just the Reputation to 80-90 of historical players resulted in some cases in their NOT being selected for the National Team (maybe I'm remembering wrong)

Thanks again for sharing!

[pinheirobcp]

it works with a 20yo.....he goes to the National Team.

Does it work with teenagers too?

That's interesting that even though his Reputation was 10 he still made the National Team......before I removed "modern players" with a CA/PA above 100 I found that lowering just the Reputation to 80-90 of historical players resulted in some cases in their NOT being selected for the National Team (maybe I'm remembering wrong)

Thanks again for sharing!

Well, here's the catch... I've been testing/playing the DB for 3 full seasons, managing the Flin Flon Bombers. I've noticed that some players had NHL-release clauses (like Ovechkin) and some didn't (like Malkin). I had editted all of their reputations, but quite randomly. They have all been on the National Team, including WC and Olympics, for this game for some time now.

So, I've tested getting their reputation really low overall, and created a new game today. In this new game, they were all release clause free, as I mentioned earlier. But I just saw it, tried to sign them (and got the future transfer 11 years from now) and left the game, didn't sim further. So, I don't know if they would go to the NT in this new game. I don't know if I made myself clear...

In this 3-seasons game I'm playing, their reputation grew with time, and is now on par with the top NHLers. So, I assume that, even if they don't make the NT at first, they will shortly as their reputation increases. Contracts, however, will remain release-clause free, I assume.

I will test this with a teenager soon enough, and report back. I assume you mean a 18/19 year old in a professional contract with an European club, of course.

[nino33]

I think I understand what you're saying.

I actually have very young Europeans/Russians...like 16 year old Viacheslav Fetisov, 14 year olds Mats Naslund and Vladimir Krutov, etc (some Europeans won't have the full 11 year contracts like the Russians will + I thought I'd give some of the Russians a low Adaptability/high Loyalty in the hope they'll resign.....but even 11 years would be acceptable IMO).....I have these contracts to a parent club but they play for a junior team (i.e. Moscow C and Moscow C Jrs)

Ideally/eventually I'd like fully populated historical European/Russian Elite Leagues and the "feeder/youth leagues" just like the North American Minor Hockey Leagues that I've created....for now "hockey nations" like Sweden, Finland, Russia, and the Czech Republic will have 30 plus mature adult historical players, plus 30 plus young adults and 30 plus "youth" (a lot of this is already done)


Regarding Reputation....I've again removed all modern players with a CA/PA over 100, so there are only historical Europeans/Russians with a CA/PA over 100 - using 80 as the Reputation for my historical players results in no NHL Release Clause, but it didn't work for young teenagers at game-start; I appreciate you sharing as I haven't yet got back to dealing with this issue, but I was wondering how I might deal with the "teenager issue"

Regards

[archibalduk]

I've been experimenting with an old version of the 1974 database which Nino passed to me to test. Thus far I have done the following:

1) Corrected the year of birth for all players and staff using the Pre Game Editor;
2) Adjusted all of the contract expiry years for all players and staff using my Contract Expiry Tool;
3) Adjusted all draft years (i.e. the year in which each player was drafted) for all players using my Draft Year Tool (still in development).

Seeing as the database is currently designed to work with a 2006 start date and we want to adjust it to work for 1972, all of the above had to be adjusted by 32 years (2006-1974=32).

So now I've started a new game using my adjusted copy of the 1974 database and with the CSD Patch for a 1974 start date. There aren't any more errors regarding contracts (I don't get any .cpp errors whatsoever) and draft information seems to come up correctly.

However, the NHL season seems to grind to a halt midway through the season. I'm not sure why this is - there appear to be the correct number of teams in each division and conference. I wonder if this is something relating to the game update on 1 January each year... Or maybe there is some sort of issue with the database itself (it's from the time when Nino kept losing things and so it could be related to that). I'll need to try converting the Manimal v3.2 rosters to 1974 to see if I run into the same thing.

Strangely the competition history doesn't cause a crash. When I looked at the history for the World Champs there are two entries for the 1975 season which doesn't seem to cause an issue for EHM - I'm very surprised.

I'll sim through a second season to see whether the same issue arises for the NHL the following season.

[archibalduk]

I got the same issue in the second season. I'll find some time over the next few days to try the same thing using the Manimal v3.2 rosters so that I can determine whether or not it's a DB issue.

[nino33]

However, the NHL season seems to grind to a halt midway through the season.

I got the same issue in the second season.

So you're still able to continue the game into a second season?
When you say "grinds to a halt" does that mean no games are scheduled? Or the games are scheduled but not played? The NHL players just sit on the roster during all of this? Just wondering...

I know I hadn't yet edited many of the "new teams" Arena/Finances.....and some teams may have had no Owner as every NHL Staff was 100% "removed" (made them Free Agents), and the work to add historical Staff back onto NHL teams was "In-Progress"...

[pinheirobcp]

Man, I just want to say, having the ability to edit drafts and contracts in mass, and changing the start date, Editing on EHM has been added a whole new level, no doubt. This is awesome, and I'm sure any issues can be resolved, as many bigger one have.

[archibalduk]

So you're still able to continue the game into a second season?

Yeah I got as far as Feb 1976 without any issues.

When you say "grinds to a halt" does that mean no games are scheduled? Or the games are scheduled but not played? The NHL players just sit on the roster during all of this? Just wondering...

That's right. The teams each play roughly 38-41 games and then nothing (the schedule is completely blank and you can't see any previous results or player game logs). The players and teams just sit there doing nothing.

I think (and I hope) it's just because, as we know already, the rosters were faulty. I'll let you know what I find when I try using the Manimal v3.2 rosters with a 1974 start date.

[nino33]

as we know already, the rosters were faulty.

I'm not sure how "faulty" the rosters were though, in that the problem was the "Windows 7 Run as Administrator" issue.....data was "disappearing"

I'm not sure what the issue might be....interesting that it works up to about the same point in time, something must be occuring around the midseason mark...

IIRC there's very little NHL Staff on NHL teams, and some/many teams had no one (not even an owner)...and there's no Arenas or Team Finances/etc set for some of the "new" NHL teams.....not sure if this would matter

Maybe its the "history issue" in some way (how it seems we don't really need to delete 1974-2006 "stuff" - maybe we do)....the test with Manimal's db will tell us more! Thanks for all your efforts!

[archibalduk]

I've tried a 1974 start date with a modified set of the Manimal v3.2 rosters and alas I encounter the same issue. Games are scheduled until 31 Dec and then there's nothing. So it's clearly a start date issue and not a database issue. The game data is updated/processed in game on 1 January each year - it's probably related to this.

I'll try emptying the competition histories to see if this fixes the problem. Like you say, although the histories "seem" to work without issue, maybe it's indirectly causing a problem. Having said that, the World Champs worked fine (i.e. all games were played). If not, I'll start looking through more offsets to see if I can get to the bottom of this.

It'll also be worth me trying to load a different league to see whether this just affects the NHL or whether it is every playable league.

Will keep you posted!

[nino33]

To me this is good news as...
#1 You have managed to solve problem after problem lately with your "Patch Work" so I am thinking this problem will be overcome
#2 The 1974 db is not the source of the problem! I have to admit I was a little worried...