1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[XenHL]

Ooh, I'll have to find where those other ones (licence, sega etc) live in the directory tree... I love your selection but I'll try to find high-res pics to use. I'll do a set up to go with the standard blue theme of the game... is there another skin package that has a bit more of a 70s feel to it? Took a glance through the requisite image files for skins and whoa there's a lot... too much to tackle (for now, anyways).

As for the date... the default DB starts 2006-07 season and the game is called EHM 2007, so I figured to follow the same pattern, since the starting season is 1974-75. I can change it if you want, though!

[Manimal]

Ooh, I'll have to find where those other ones (licence, sega etc) live in the directory tree... I love your selection but I'll try to find high-res pics to use. I'll do a set up to go with the standard blue theme of the game... is there another skin package that has a bit more of a 70s feel to it? Took a glance through the requisite image files for skins and whoa there's a lot... too much to tackle (for now, anyways).

As for the date... the default DB starts 2006-07 season and the game is called EHM 2007, so I figured to follow the same pattern, since the starting season is 1974-75. I can change it if you want, though!

Have you tried the Brown/Bronze or the one aptly named Seventy-three? They are in our download section.
For the challenge users there are also a Red Wings skin

[XenHL]

Manimal: No, I haven't, but I'll check them out after work today! The issue of skin/appearance hasn't been really of interest to me until now... I don't dislike the default look, just thought it might look a little too modern for a 1970s DB!

Sometimes I wonder at the AI... Nords just traded former Calder winner Peter Sturgeon for a 3rd round pick... he's been playing pretty well, 14 points in 17 gp, 7.89 average rating...

...and WHY does every team insist on trying to trade for a guy I list as 'untouchable'? Or for a trophy winner, immediately after he wins the trophy? I know it's just programming, but what makes it think I'd be stupid enough to trade a Calder-winning player (Langway) for a scrub and a few picks?

[bruins72]

Yeah, I've had tons of teams hounding me about Dionne even though I've had him listed as untouchable since I started the game. Sometimes the AI just doesn't get it. Then again, in the past I've made offers on guys that were listed as untouchable by their teams.

[nino33]

I'll have to find where those other ones (licence, sega etc) live in the directory tree

You’ll find the license/sega/si/warchild pics in “NHL Eastside Hockey Manager – data – pictures – intro”

[nino33]

FYI - I've given up on the idea of a 1984 or 1994 database. The 1974 database has more than enough editing work to keep me busy into 2013!

Since the release of the 1974db1.0 I've deleted almost 5000 more modern staff/players, I've deleted the remaining weird names, I've added Major Junior Staff and I've continued to work on the further editing of AHL/CHL players (now 20% done)....I still want to finish adding Major Junior players (OHL/WHL) and I want to add Minor Pro Staff too, as well as now adding HUNDREDS more historical Europeans/Russians! So LOTS to keep me busy for quite awhile!

And the historical Europeans/Russians will be edited to reflect their actual/appropriate ability level as of August 1974 IRL.
I am accepting the limitations with EHM editing, and I've decided I want their actual/appropriate ability level at start-up regardless of how that affects hockey in NA.


Regards

[Primis]

FYI - I've given up on the idea of a 1984 or 1994 database. The 1974 database has more than enough editing work to keep me busy into 2013!

Awww, I was looking forward to the 1984 one. Ah well.

If you're going to concentrate just on the 74 one, will you be adding even more pre-junior youngsters? Or just trying to flesh out the leagues already in the game?

[nino33]

will you be adding even more pre-junior youngsters?

I think most everyone is already in-game...a few months ago I started with the youngest players (age 1/2005 Birth Year) and worked my way up to PeeWee players and I added anyone from NA who had at least 100 career NHL points (plus I added low scoring defenseman/goaltenders based on GP); BUT I haven't reviewed Bantam/PreJunior players yet...If there's a significant North American NHLer who was born IRL in 1973 or before that's missing from the 1974 db please let me know!

So I'm not really looking to add more youngsters from NA...there are of course many players who could be added who didn't make the NHL or who played very few NHL games, but I'm not sure they'd last long in EHM (I think they'd likely retire young because of a low PA), and there is still so much higher priority editing to do

What I will be doing is adding all the missing young Europeans/Russians, plus HUNDREDS of historical adult Elite League Europeans/Russians.
Looking at my spreadsheet/prep work, currently I'm looking to add about 300 historical Russians and about 300 Czechs/Slovaks (and I suspect I'll be adding similar amounts of historical Swedes/Finns too)...so well over 1000 new historical European/Russians will be added, plus pre-junior youngsters!


Regards

P.S. As noted previously, I'm not finished adding players to the OHL/WHL (I'm using the actual team rosters from 1974-75 OHL/WHL Guides that I have), so there will be more players added to Major Junior

[XenHL]

I too was looking forward to a 1984 DB (that's *my* era of hockey!), but it's perfectly understandable!

As for other Europeans, I know there's already an immense amount still do with adding the Russians, Czechs etc, but perhaps you could consider adding here or there the most notable players from "minor" countries - Tony Hand from the UK, Uwe Krupp from Germany (I want his slapshot on my NHL team!) or Doru Tureanu from Romania...?

[bruins72]

While I'm disappointed that you won't be working on a 1984 or 1994 DB, I am please to know that you'll be adding historical Euro players. I think that the database almost needs it the way that EHM works.

[nino33]

I know there's already an immense amount still do with adding the Russians, Czechs etc, but perhaps you could consider adding here or there the most notable players from "minor" countries - Tony Hand from the UK, Uwe Krupp from Germany (I want his slapshot on my NHL team!) or Doru Tureanu from Romania...?

I suspect I will...

I've decided that I'll populate European/Russian "Junior and Elite Leagues" first...then I'm going to try some testing with the really young Europeans/Russians starting in my NA Minor Hockey Leagues (Mite, Atom, Novice, etc); I'll select "Europe" for Junior Preference, so hopefully they'll head to Europe as teenagers (the same way the NA players move into Major Junior)

[archibalduk]

Tony Hand would be awesome! I'd love to see how he'd have turned out had he not returned to the UK.

There's a great quote from Glenn Sather on Tony Hand's brief appearance at the Oilers' training camp following him being picked 252nd in the 1986 draft:

Sather expressed his disappointment that "he didn't accept my deal because he could have advanced in North America. His progress would have been celebrated." Indeed, Sather also says "At the training camp I could see that he had a great ability to read the ice and he was the smartest player there other than Wayne Gretzky. He skated well: his intelligence on the ice stood out. he was a real prospect."

To be compared to Gretzky like that is a real compliment. It sounds like he had real potential to go far in North America.

I know you have a million other things to do, but if you ever get to the point where you want authentic 70s British team names in the game then let me know.

[bruins72]

I was just looking at Wayne Cashman in my challenge game (since I just traded for him). I think he could use a fairly sizable bump in Aggression (he played much more aggressively than a "5") and a minor bump in Influence (he served as the Bruins captain for a decent stretch).

[nino33]

I was just looking at Wayne Cashman in my challenge game (since I just traded for him). I think he could use a fairly sizable bump in Aggression (he played much more aggressively than a "5") and a minor bump in Influence (he served as the Bruins captain for a decent stretch).

I bumped his Aggression from 5 to 14 (IMO Cashman was not really a tough guy though, more a stickman; he only had a handful of fights each year)...I left his Influence/Leadership at 14 as while he wore the C in real life, that was from 1978-1983 (i.e. not in 1974)

[bruins72]

I was just thinking about your issue with European players coming over too soon in this database. I know you've adjusted Reputations, Loyalty, and Adaptability already but have you tried to also include "Favorite Teams"? If these players have all of those items you've already adjusted and then maybe the team they played most of their career for, it's one more thing that might prevent them from coming over.

Just an idea.

[nino33]

I was just thinking about your issue with European players coming over too soon in this database. I know you've adjusted Reputations, Loyalty, and Adaptability already but have you tried to also include "Favorite Teams"? If these players have all of those items you've already adjusted and then maybe the team they played most of their career for, it's one more thing that might prevent them from coming over.

Just an idea.

Tried it (I did a lot of testing on this back in the summer of 2011)...doesn't seem to have much if any impact (same with Favourite Staff); I just doublechecked and all the Russians in the 1974 db have their Russian Club (that they’re playing on at start-up) as their Favourite Club

[bruins72]

Oh well! It was worth a shot.

[Manimal]

Did you do anymore testing with players with a negative birthdate? So that even more(younger) players could be added into the game?

[nino33]

Did you do anymore testing with players with a negative birthdate? So that even more(younger) players could be added into the game?

No additional tests...it seems to work, and I have excel spreadsheets with the players to add, but I don't see it happening anytime soon
- adding WHL/OHL players, editing AHL/CHL players and adding Europeans/Russians is keeping me very busy (and will take awhile to complete)
- I'm not settled yet on how height/weight develops for preteens, and what I need to do to have players "grow properly"

I have some height/weight testing "in progress" - I've set most preteens to "0" and tested a new % of adult height/weight with some others, and I've spent the many days needed to get 20 years of saves to look at (saving yearly), but haven't had time yet to look at the results

I'm currently working on adding historical Europeans/Russians...have been for awhile and likely will be for awhile!

P.S. I do have a name for the league they’ll start in…the “Prenatal League” HaHa

[Manimal]

I'm currently working on adding historical Europeans/Russians...have been for awhile and likely will be for awhile!

What have you done in regards to European teams?

[nino33]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean "what have I done" - I'm mostly filling a new_staff file

I have the new_staff filed saved as an excel file, and I've got multiple tabs for the different nations.
I work on different things within the whole (I don’t just do one task/nation until completion, I “bounce around” a bit depending on whim)
I used the sites hockeydb and eliteprospects and sometimes more, plus the paper reference materials I have (which sometimes provide more information)

As an example of where I'm at, if I imported it "right now as is" I'd add 86 players to the Czech Elite League.

As I'm so used to working in spreadsheets, and the EHM Updater is spreadsheets, I do a lot of work before I import anything.
Things can go wrong and errors can occur and significant time is required to successfully import a bunch of data - I know it works so I don't bother importing as I go, rather in a month or two I'll settle down for a weekend and import everything (in multiple steps, testing as I go)

[Manimal]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean "what have I done" - I'm mostly filling a new_staff file

I meant team names. Have you set them as they were back then?

I don’t just do one task/nation until completion, I “bounce around” a bit depending on whim

I know that feeling! I do the same. Doing the same kind of editing for a long time is tedious

[nino33]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean "what have I done" - I'm mostly filling a new_staff file

I meant team names. Have you set them as they were back then?

Absolutely not! HaHa
Not yet!
Team names will be the very last thing I'll do...the editing of team names has been the cause and/or connected to every crash and data loss I've ever had

[XenHL]

I had a couple of thoughts reading through older threads...

1. If it's possible to change the number of teams in a league, wouldn't it be possible to replace the NHL's 30 team, 6 division structure with, say the AHL's 27 team, 4 division structure (which'd give the 18 NHL teams plus 9 WHA teams - which is what you'd get if you remove the duplicate cities/teams like Chicago, Toronto etc).

Though you are far too far along to do this now, I'm just curious... (I've got a vague project in the back of my mind I may be tempted to slowly start on...)

This next may be more relevant to where you are now:

I read that you can change the "importance" of National Teams, and that though the first season is fixed in stone, from the second on things'd get different... so, perhaps using that you could make "non-existent" countries like Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Slovakia, Croatia etc have the least importance possible, and in their place boost existing lower-ranked countries up a bit, so they'd end up amongst the ones getting promoted into D1 instead of the non-existent-in-1974 countries - North and South Korea, Bulgaria, etc. For the then-united countries - USSR, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia - pick one constituent (the obvious ones - Russia, Czech Republic and Slovenia (Slovenia because it was the heartland of Yugoslav hockey, elsewhere there are/were only pockets of interest, like in Sarajevo, in Macedonia and in the north of Serbia), and the remaining "new" countries could all be set to minimum importance, and they'd disappear in a few years to the level of where Bulgaria and North Korea are in-game - you never see them.

On a similar note I wonder if it'd be possible to create "new" national teams... I'm thinking here what one would do about East Germany (who actually had some decent national teams in the 60s and the early 70s)...

[nino33]

1. If it's possible to change the number of teams in a league, wouldn't it be possible to replace the NHL's 30 team, 6 division structure with, say the AHL's 27 team, 4 division structure (which'd give the 18 NHL teams plus 9 WHA teams - which is what you'd get if you remove the duplicate cities/teams like Chicago, Toronto etc).

Couple issues...with EHM it seems there's a built in "the NHL always wins" no matter what (like trying to keep Europeans/Russians in Europe/Russia in the 1974 db..."the NHL always wins"); another example...when a user recently lowered the NHL age Limit below Major Junior and changed all the League Reputations (to try and simulate the current NHL Lock Out), EU players kept playing but NA players all retired! + You have to keep ALL of a League's rules, so the "new NHL" (AHL) would have the AHL's veteran restrictions for example

Apparently you can change the number of teams easily enough in any non-playable league, but not in the playable ones...

I read that you can change the "importance" of National Teams, and that though the first season is fixed in stone, from the second on things'd get different... so, perhaps using that you could make "non-existent" countries like Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Slovakia, Croatia etc have the least importance possible, and in their place boost existing lower-ranked countries up a bit, so they'd end up amongst the ones getting promoted into D1 instead of the non-existent-in-1974 countries - North and South Korea, Bulgaria, etc. For the then-united countries - USSR, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia - pick one constituent (the obvious ones - Russia, Czech Republic and Slovenia (Slovenia because it was the heartland of Yugoslav hockey, elsewhere there are/were only pockets of interest, like in Sarajevo, in Macedonia and in the north of Serbia), and the remaining "new" countries could all be set to minimum importance, and they'd disappear in a few years to the level of where Bulgaria and North Korea are in-game - you never see them.

On a similar note I wonder if it'd be possible to create "new" national teams... I'm thinking here what one would do about East Germany (who actually had some decent national teams in the 60s and the early 70s)...

I agree with your thinking (and I'm aware of the older threads), so...eventually! But finishing the AHL/CHL editing, adding some more OHL/WHL players, and adding Europeans/Russians is going to keep me pretty busy for quite awhile!