How Foreign Player Limits Affect Multi-Nation Leagues?

[Primis]

So... I'm kicking around the idea of a DB that utilizes one of the current European Leagues rule structures so that the league's teams exist in a bunch of different countries, and depending on the country said team is in they are required to use X-number of domestic players and can only use Y-number of imports.

For instance team Moscow needs to be comprised mostly of Russians, and anyone else is considered an import. However team Stockholm would need to be comprised mainly of Swedes, team Helsinki of Finns, etc.

What playable league would this work in best (if at all)? Ideally the league needs to have the hardcoded structure to handle more than 8 or 10 teams. I want maybe 3 or 4 Canadian teams, 2 or 3 US teams, 2 or 3 Russian, 1 or 2 Swedes, a Czech, etc.... I'm looking at probably around 16 teams minimum to maximize the fun value. I want to see what happens when teams need to be domestic-heavy (but can still sign foreign FA's).

I know nothing about the euro leagues though. Does this describe the RSL well enough (editing the league rep and salary caps would be easily enough accomplished)? I know the RSL does some of this in-game, but I'm not sure how "imports" are counted or considered -- are "domestic" players based on the country the team is based in, or where the league is based?...

[Alessandro]

It depends on the nation of the team.

[Primis]

It depends on the nation of the team.

Hmmm. RSL appears still hardcoded for Russians though, with the "Min. 2 Russians 20y or Younger Dressed" rule. DEL has similar rule for Germans. Those were my first two toughts on what might work.

Is there a league then with domestic/import rules, but no min. on specific nationalities or youth?

Finnish SM-Liga seems to have a "Max 4 Foreign" rule and that's it (albeit only 14 teams). Czech Elite is "Max 3 Foreign" as well. I'm assuming that wording is the same, and that "Foreign" would then be based upon that team's home country, since other league rulesets specify a specific nationality?

Sorry to seem redundant in asking, but there is no real standard in wording and terminology with league rules in-game, and if you're not familiar with the leagues (I'm in the U.S.) it's incredibly foreign (pun unintended).

[archibalduk]

This might not provide you with enough teams, but try taking a look at the three Slovenian leagues. The two International Ice Hockey Leagues have no foreigner restrictions and would provide you with 11 teams in total (6 in one league and 5 in another). The Slovenian Elite League would provide for an additional 8 teams (they can be teams which also play in the IIHL or they can be entirely different teams). The Elite has a limit of 6 foreigners dressed, but I think what nations are regarded as foreign would depend on the nationality of the team (but I might be wrong on that - this is certainly how it works in hte RSL in any event) - so it'd be fine if your Canadian team consisted entirely of Canadians, but it might be an issue if they had more than 6 US players on the roster, etc.

The British leagues are perhaps another possibility. The EIHL has space for 10 teams and has a foreigner limit of 10 per team. Again, if what is regarded as foreign depends on the nationality of the team, then the 10 foreigner limit would allow quite a lot of leeway for teams which have a big mix of both Canadian and US players. The lower EPIHL has space for 12 teams but has a smaller limit of 4 foreigners (I might be wrong, but I'm sure I'm able to dress more than 4 foreigners in my EPIHL saved game - at least those foreigners who are on the roster at the start of the game).

The Czech League looks like a decent possibility too.

Finnish SM-Liga seems to have a "Max 4 Foreign" rule and that's it (albeit only 14 teams).

Note that the SM Liga, Mestis and Suomi Division are linked together via promotion and relegation. The Mestis and Suomi Division have non-EU foreigner limits which is going to prevent teams consisting of more than 4 Canadians and Americans.

[Primis]

Finnish SM-Liga seems to have a "Max 4 Foreign" rule and that's it (albeit only 14 teams).

Note that the SM Liga, Mestis and Suomi Division are linked together via promotion and relegation. The Mestis and Suomi Division have non-EU foreigner limits which is going to prevent teams consisting of more than 4 Canadians and Americans.

Is the Czech league free of promotion/relegation then?

I actually plan on taking the 14 teams and giving them all an AHL affiliate, because the actual NHL will be a max 12y.o. league with a league rep of 1 and not really exist anyways...

[Alessandro]

Use our superpatch for more realistic foreign limitations

[Doomski]

I was wondering something yesterday, about the foreign player limits in multi-nation leagues:

I'm currently playing with the 5.0 roster update, with the CSKA Moscow in the KHL. I'm playing using the league patch and art money, in order to be able to have 5 foreigners allowed in my line-up.

There are 3 non-russian teams in EHM's KHL. These are Dynamo Minsk, Dinamo Riga and Barys Astana (as you might know if you already GMed in KHL, the others non Russian team play in the VHL) .

I noticed something odd with the foreign restirctions in one of these KHL teams.

In Riga and Minsk, russians players are considered as foreigners. Seems pretty logical, as those cities are located in Latvia and Belarus.

But this is different in Astana. In my second season, Barys recruted several russians players. And they are not considered as foreigners, despite not being Kazakhs. I check each and every players involved, they're only russian, without Kazakh passport/double citizenship.

So I was wondering why russians players are considered as foreigners in Latvia and Belarus, but not in Kazakhstan?

Slovan Bratislava got promoted in my game, but I can't compare as they don't have any russian player in their roster.

Does anyone have a clue about why russians are not considered foreigners in Kazakhstan?

[Loosie]

Does anyone have a clue about why russians are not considered foreigners in Kazakhstan?

Never mind I read this wrong. There may be a 'Soviet' goruping in which they programmed all former soviet nations to be considered not foreign to each other.

[Alessandro]

I was wondering something yesterday, about the foreign player limits in multi-nation leagues:

I'm currently playing with the 5.0 roster update, with the CSKA Moscow in the KHL. I'm playing using the league patch and art money, in order to be able to have 5 foreigners allowed in my line-up.

There are 3 non-russian teams in EHM's KHL. These are Dynamo Minsk, Dinamo Riga and Barys Astana (as you might know if you already GMed in KHL, the others non Russian team play in the VHL) .

I noticed something odd with the foreign restirctions in one of these KHL teams.

In Riga and Minsk, russians players are considered as foreigners. Seems pretty logical, as those cities are located in Latvia and Belarus.

But this is different in Astana. In my second season, Barys recruted several russians players. And they are not considered as foreigners, despite not being Kazakhs. I check each and every players involved, they're only russian, without Kazakh passport/double citizenship.

So I was wondering why russians players are considered as foreigners in Latvia and Belarus, but not in Kazakhstan?

Slovan Bratislava got promoted in my game, but I can't compare as they don't have any russian player in their roster.

Does anyone have a clue about why russians are not considered foreigners in Kazakhstan?

When the game was released Russians weren't considered foreigners in Kazakhstan teams, the same for Belarusians in Russian teams. This is unfortunately hardcoded.

[Doomski]

I was about to post something about a young belarusian prospect I signed with the CSKA, and he was too not considered as a foreigner, despite not being russian. Okay, now I understand it better.
Such a shame it is hardcoded, it's not fair for the other non-russians teams in the KHL. Thanks for your answer!

[Primis]

So.... I tried this finally in the Czech League.

I put in Boston and Detroit... Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver... SKA St. Petersberg and Dynamo Moscow... Jokerit and HIFK... MODO and Frolunda... Eisbaren Berlin... SC Bern... and left in Sparta Praha.

One thing I noticed right off the bat: the ex-NHL teams get to treat Americans and Canadians interchangably. Just because Detroit is based in the U.S., they can still keep their Canadian players and dress them without penalty. Same for Toronto and their Americans. I found this odd. So whatever the Czech League uses to count Foreigners, it works funny for North Americans (this begs the question: what would a Mexican national count as? I now must know!). Apparently a North American is a North American.

To be honest... that sucks some of the fun out of it for me. I wanted a couple US-heavy teams, a few Canadian-heavy... instead I'm going to sit here and see a ton of Canadians signed period. So DET not only gets to keep (and dress) Kronwall, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg, but can also play Helm, Quincey, Bertuzzi, Colaiacovo...

It has been fun though to see Berlin sign Germans, Bern sign Swiss nationals, the Russian teams snap up Russians including Yakupov, etc...

[Alessandro]

Yes I forgot to write it, US teams and Canadian teams can have canadians and americans as they wish. Mexicans will be foreigners.

[Loosie]

I was about to post something about a young belarusian prospect I signed with the CSKA, and he was too not considered as a foreigner, despite not being russian. Okay, now I understand it better.
Such a shame it is hardcoded, it's not fair for the other non-russians teams in the KHL. Thanks for your answer!

Don't forget that when the game was released there was no KHL, It was still the Russian Superleague at that time. And it only had Russian-based teams. The KHL didn't exist until 2008.

[Doomski]

Don't forget that when the game was released there was no KHL, It was still the Russian Superleague at that time. And it only had Russian-based teams. The KHL didn't exist until 2008.

Yes, for sure. I'm a huge russian hockey fan, so I definitly didn't forget that

Anyway I still find find it unfair for the Latvian and Belarusian teams. In my different games in the KHL, Barys are always saved by the russians players they sign, and Minsk and Riga always struggle against relegation, and finally one of those got relegated. Unfortunatly we can't do anything about it, so I won't complain anymore And the Superpatch is good enough to have a more realistic season, the non Russians based teams can at least use most of their foreigner players.

After being promoted, Slovan is making a good season on the other side. They managed to sign some good Slovaks free agents, and are competitive enough.

[Primis]

Yes I forgot to write it, US teams and Canadian teams can have canadians and americans as they wish. Mexicans will be foreigners.

Why is this? Is it because none of the Euro leagues (that I know of) distinguish between the 2, so the game just views them the same?

[Alessandro]

I think it's because of the CHL, so that imports are just european/asian players

[Primis]

Another fun nugget of info:

The RSL has a Max 3 Foreigners Dressed rule, as well as a Min. 2 Russians 20 Years or Younger rule.

If you change the RSL's league info to be based somewhere else though, you can change the Russian Youngsters rule to whatever nationality you choose. So if you change the league to be based in Canada, the rule then becomes 2 Canadians 20 or Younger... which by extension would also include Americans (see posts above). So if a rule specifies a nationality, you can change it by changing where the league is based.

This solves some of the issues I had. I still can't seem to completely solve the Reputation issues that keep true top-level NHL talent from signing anywhere else though (as nino has discussed at length in the past). Short of dropping player reps, that is. Even if I set CSKA say to 9999 for team rep, and RSL to league rep of 20, they can attract the Lundqvists, Rinnes, etc as goalies... but none of the North Americans want anything to do with them, and neither do the Malkins and Ovechkins even. So I put Chicago in the RSL set to 9999... just to see. Same thing, except Rinne and Lundqvist aren't even interested,

[archibalduk]

My brother got around the difficulty with signing NA players by dropping their rep using the saved game editor. Maybe dropping player reps in the Pre Game Editor will have a similar effect. I'd love to test this out as it may have a bearing on the reps I set for the players based in the UK leagues (in order to get around the contract re-signing bug).

[Primis]

My brother got around the difficulty with signing NA players by dropping their rep using the saved game editor. Maybe dropping player reps in the Pre Game Editor will have a similar effect. I'd love to test this out as it may have a bearing on the reps I set for the players based in the UK leagues (in order to get around the contract re-signing bug).

Is there a tool that could mass-edit a value? Like cut all staff reps across the board by 25%, or by a specific value like 1500 pts? I st

[archibalduk]

Yes there is! However, it looks like there *might* be a bug with players with very low reps (it doesn't seem to set them correctly). I don't have time to check right now, but if you're looking for a rough and ready experiment, then the below should be okay for testing purposes.

Here's the download link: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... 29C5C5!280

You will need to place the two files from the ZIP file in your database folder. Open the csv file to make your settings. I have posted a screenshot below to show how it should look like if you wanted to reduce players' reps by 25% (note that I have manually added the bold text to make it easier to read - you'll find that the csv file doesn't have bold text):



Once you have setup the csv, save and close it. Then load the MET Attribute Editor exe (use Run as Admin if using Vista or Windows 7). This will apply your changes. You might want to look in the Pre Game Editor at a couple of random players to compare what their reps are before and after in order to check that all worked okay.

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In case you want to try out different types of settings, or just edit those with high CAs, etc. Here is a little more info which I've taken from the EHM Realism Patch thread:

Extract the ZIP somewhere and then place your player.dat file in the same location. Then open the CSV to change the settings. Here is a brief explanation of the settings:

1) Adjustment type - Set this to either Value or Percentage depending on the adjustment you want to make (i.e. do you want to increase/decrease by a set value or by a percentage).

2) Alter zero settings - If a player has an attribute as zero, do you want to include these in the adjustments or leave it as zero. Y = adjust zero attributes. N = don't adjust zero attributes.

3) Allow zero settings - If the adjustment results in the player's attribute becoming lower than 1, do you want it to be set to 1 or 0? Y = set to 0. N = set to 1.

4) CA Min & Max - Determine the range of players to alter. If you want to alter all players, set it to 0 - 200. If you want to alter the attributes of only those with a CA of 100 or above then enter 100 - 200 etc.

5) The G, D and F settings determine the changes you want to make to each attribute. Enter a negative number if you want to decrease a value. If you set the Adjustment Type as Value then obviously it will just add/remove the number you enter from the player's attributes. If you are using Percentage, then the number you enter will be treated as a percentage e.g. if you enter -50 it will decrease the attribute by 50% whereas entering 50 will increase by 50%.

Once you have finalised your settings, save the CSV and then load the EXE file. It should only take a short moment to apply. You will see that the EXE loads a terminal window with information displayed. This window shows you how many records were written (it should be the same number as those read) and whether there were any errors.

I have given the application some testing and it appears to work okay. However I would recommend that you do a quick before and after comparison in the Pre Game Editor just to make sure that it has made the changes you expected.

Let me know how you get on.

P.s. If you're using Windows Vista or 7 and you run the application from within C:\Program Files\..\ then you'll need to use the Run as Admin option.

I've added a PA filter so you can now run your own combination of CA and PA filters simultaneously (e.g. you could apply to just those with a CA or 0-100 and a PA of 90-200 etc).

You'll see there is a new section in the csv file for the PA min and max filter. I haven't tested this at all and so you might want to check in the Pre Game Editor that the changes are working as you expected. It's pretty easy to add new filters/attributes to the code and so I wouldn't expect there to be any issues (unless, of course, I made a typing mistake).

Each attribute can now be set individually as follows:

• S = Set the attribute as whatever you have entered. If you enter zero then it will set the attribute to zero. However, if you enter zero for height/weight, it does not set the attribute to zero but instead does nothing at all. So if you use the S setting for weight and you set the weight for goalies to zero, the Editor will not edit any goalie weights (it will leave them unedited).
• P = Percentage change. This works as it did before. If you enter a zero then it will just skip that attribute and will not adjust that attribute for players of that position.
• V = Value change. This will add/remove the number you enter. E.g. if you enter 7 then it will add 7 to the attribute of that player position. If you enter zero then it will skip that attribute for players of that position.

[Primis]

Yes there is! However, it looks like there *might* be a bug with players with very low reps (it doesn't seem to set them correctly). I don't have time to check right now, but if you're looking for a rough and ready experiment, then the below should be okay for testing purposes.

Here's the download link: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... 29C5C5!280

Oh I totally can and will, thanks! Considering some of the rough freeware EHM utilities I've heavily used in the past, it can't be any rougher than some of them.

I really like that you can flag what the value is (S, P, V). That's good flexibility for a lot of different situations, and will inevitably entice me into trying crazy things with values in the DB (which may be a good or bad thing, I'm not sure)... I'm stupid so it only just occurred to me yesterday that I could put negative values in the Staff Filter on the pregame editor (duhhhhhh) so that you can view the randomized prospects. The things you never think about trying...

Sometime today I'm going to go back in and rebuild the DB I was experimenting with from scratch (I had mucked around with too many teams/leagues in my testing) and give another go at turning the RSL into the kind of league I want. The bug with low reps wouldn't probably really affect me, since I'm not as concerned with those with lower reps anyways. I want to see what that's like, and then I think I'm going to turn my attention to ArtMoney and find the thread where playing around with the .EXE was discussed, and see if I can apply the RSL's ruleset to the NHL structure.

[Alessandro]

Primis - I suggest you to try out our superpatch. It gives you more updated foreigner rules for a lot of leagues, including the RSL/KHL.

[Primis]

Primis - I suggest you to try out our superpatch. It gives you more updated foreigner rules for a lot of leagues, including the RSL/KHL.

I'm not trying to update or replicate something though, I'm trying to mess with stuff and see what I can create out of it and see how much more the game can be broken/molded than what people have already done.

I already horribly mangled something trying to use the mass editor. Heh. Everyone's Rep is now "1". Everyone. Whooooops... not sure how happens when I was only using a percentage...

EDIT: LOL. I fixed the reps and put everyone in the DB up to reps of 80 for everything. Annnnndddd... Crosby and Ovechkin both signed to play in the DEL of their own free will. Well this has been a disaster, playing around with player reps is dark magic indeed. And yet... now I feel oddly compelled to actually play this a while and see how it goes... how many goals can they score in the DEL? Who else will end up in weird places they have no business being? Do the Vienna Capitals and Dinamo Riga stand any chance whatsoever in my RSL going up against NHL and KHL teams?

[ExxonPirate]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I'm wondering: is there a mass-attribute-editor for the saved-game editor? I intend on playing this db for a while and am concerned that the player reps will increase, causing high-rep players to decline lesser-league offers in years to come.