Minstrel Hockey League 2013

[Manimal]

I wrote 'a starter of similar quality'. A Washington goalie is not

[nino33]

I lost again, this time it wasn't close (3-8-1).
It might have helped if Fleury had started today instead of Vokoun...but not likely! HaHa
I lacked offense and again my +/- was a problem (I was -10 this week!)...

[timmy_t]

I wrote 'a starter of similar quality'. A Washington goalie is not

My thoughts exactly!!!

Don't trade with him! I literally spent a week over the summer with his Luongo offers and he wanted twice as much as he was giving. I even showed him the math but he's too unreasonable.

Here's a good example of a typical Batdad trade: To Wild Boars - Michal Neuvirth and Jeff Carter, To Sancouver Sentinals - Semyon Varlamov and Steven Stamkos.

I love ya Batdad, but when it comes to fantasy hockey trades you're like a used car salesman!





edit: sorry for all of the smilies

[batdad]

No. Not Stamkos. Come on. Fact remains though as you can see how my team does every season that not everyone here knows how valuable players really are. For example a player like Josh Gorges is elite in a category just as Henrik Sedin and Joe Thornton are elite in a category. By a, I mean one category. For gorges it is shot blocks. For sedin and Thornton it is assists. PERIOD. Winnings hot blocks is as valuable as winning assists.

A guy like Luongo can and maybe will win you 3 categories and has been elite in 3. Until people realize that in fantasy hockey a star player is not always the guy the media and popular opinion consider a star...they will continue to complain about trade offers. Stamkos excels in 3, Marleau excels in 4 ( short handed). This makes Marleau as valuable in fantasy as Stamkos.

Plus minus? That's a crapshoot and cannot be taken in.

Traditionally you guys see my team. How many guys are stars? Yet I win. Why? Because I see value in all categories that many do not.

Manimal-I know a Neuvirth deal is not something I am getting a superstar for. But...I he is the starter he contributes greatly to two categories. So he is as valuable as a starter as say A guy who
scores 30 goals and has 150-200 shots. But does nothing else for you.

Once people learn to assess players properly things happen in trades.

Not saying you Timmy or Manimal. Just saying guys don't value fantasy hockey players properly. I rarely win like I won this week. I lost all 3 goalie categories. Usually if that happens I lose.

Pims shot blocks saves and minutes are all categories people desperately undervalue. A guy who is decent in al player categories--Callahan--is almost more valuable than a guy like Henrik who is only good in one. Yet I know what happens if I offer up Callahan for Henrik.

I have lost in playoffs solely because of the NHL schedule in all 3 years where the team I faced would have three guys from one team who would play 4 games that week and I had 3 guys who played 2 games. Just bad luck.

You guys always get mad when I beat you. I beat you because I vakue categories properly. Most guys
Think win inv goals assists and shots will win them a week and don't pay attention. My win last week was a perfect example. Winning 3 goalie winning pims winning shot blocks 5 right there.

Many here make it easy for me to win because they only pay attention to the big $$ players. I mean how do I get Cory conacher 4 days in? What?

So continue to over value goals and assists. It haunts guys trust me.

I am willing to move Neuvirth for a guy who splits time and won't help me win as much AND a player upgrade in a category I need work in...like assists. Does that mean Neuvirth and a plug for a back up and sedin? No...but it does mean more than a plug. Because Neuvirth is worth more than the back up goalie who plays o ce per week at most. Even if that backup wins his game he only gets 60 min and 20 saves.

Do you see the point yet Timmy? Getzlaf? I know Manimal does. Its shy we negotiate forever and make a trade every year.

Guys like Scott Hartnell, David Backes, in the past Todd Bertuzzie, Ryan Callahan and winning team number 1 goalies are more valuable than any other player. You need to look no further than player rarer to see who top guys are. They are not the Kobalchuk Crosby ovechkin sedin Thornton type players

They are luingo's Niemi hartnells Marleau type guys. Look right now to see the list. It's pretty surprising. Actually right now there are more stars than normal. But clarkson? Oshie? Nabokov are examples that illustrate my point. Even Zdeno Chara does. Ottawa goalie Anderson. Fleishmann.

Look where Bryzgalov is...yet he has been on someone's trade block all year for no reason other than his owners does not get it. What is he? 5th best goalie right now and someone ants to unload him? Sorry he is 6th. And um 4th is Dubnyk. See who is 1st? And you could have had him Timmy. We had worked on a deal with him too. He's way ahead of what I asked for. And because is undisputed 1 goalie on team will stay up at the top all year even if he hardly wins. Hiller too.

3 categories if star potential greater than 2 of star. 3 and 3 is equal. So facts show that as a number one goalies trades to you were of value. Of course that is if Roberto gets number 1 minutes. Which guess what? He is. Your loss.

[visualdarkness]

Darn, two GWGs from a total sweep, is my team hot or not? It is really well balanced and I hope it continues.

Btw, batdad I needed wins and Bryz was an the verge to even lose his starter position when I put him on the block. Now he's playing great and Philly almost looks like a different team, not great but decent at least. It's not really fair to just bash around at others, especially not when you're not even the best team (Corinthias is impressive!). You're even just barely in front of me and that is with slumping teams for my goalies and injuries to guys like Briere and Hartnell!

[timmy_t]

Hey Batdad, thanks for that long post. Seriously! I really do understand what you're explaining and I probably am guilty of what you described. (Over/undervaluing players) I got lucky with Crawford so far, but unless Reimer solidifies the #1 spot in Toronto I'll constantly lose all three goalie categories.

I don't really understand the player rater; I've played with it a little but it seems pretty complicated. Do you go through each category when you rate your players or look at them in groups? (Like PIMs and Blocked Shots vs G/A/PPP?) When you try to get a PIM machine would you be willing to put him out there even if he doesn't contribute to anything else? Like Jared Boll - good for a fight a night but pretty much nothing else.

I'm still trying to figure it out and once again I appreciate what you wrote. Maybe I can improve over this season and have a better one next year.

[batdad]

With a category like PIMs I go with what I need that week. If I need to pick up a goon it is the one who plays the most games in that week against teams that I know have a match up for fighting. For example a rival team. It's a bit easier this year with only in conference play.

As for th Bryz stuff--no matter win or lose that guy is going to give you 2 wins every week. If you focus on him losing one category u have an issue. Those other 2 wins (saves and mins) are huge. All 3 is a bonus. There are only a few goalies helping teams do that. Niemi being one of them. Luongo another in the past. 2 of 3 in goalies makes him very valuable.

As for the rater you use it just to get a general idea of how a guy can contribute. You have to look at each and every one. For instance right now Ryan white is way above where he should be because he had a goon game. Or is he? Will he continue to rock that category? You have to look at all of it. Not just the rater not just the stat from day before.

Sometimes it's a roll of the dice like this guy from Dallas who has had a couple of good games. Some times it's calculated like Conacher. But I found them both because of player rater. Then compared others.

Quite often I sort by position

As for where I am? That is tied for 1st place. 2 wins. With all my stat categories at or near top 5 overall? So how does my te suck again? I have no superstars just guys who contribute on a consistent basis. Like virtually every game they play. Even Bieksa with 0 points is contributing to my wins with blocks and pims.

And you know the points will come.

Then there is Legwand.

But I think anyone who tells me that my team is worse than theirs or almost the same can keep underestimating it. The guys who know me and know my team...they don't underestimate it.

And yeah Corinthians has a real good team. He understands how to do things the way i do. And he attended the draft a whole lot more than me. This was my first draft I attended past the first round.

Btw you have never undervalued Hartnell. .
The reason trades are harder now is because of two or three things.

1. People overvalue 1 stat stars. Thornton sedin are examples
2 people undervalue other guys non-stars who contribute across the board-seabrook Bieksa Burrows Hartnell Backes Kesler
3 people way way undervalue and in some cases overvalue (when they have them) starting goalies who are clear number 1 guys. Mason Nabokov theodore in the past have all been fa. Reimer. rubbish I got Niemi as a free agent. These guys are gas because played on bad teams and did not win. Yet...they were a hell of alot more valuable than the split goalies like they have in Washington Colorado St. Louis etc. because they rack up way more than 1 category.

Jeez jonathon quick was a fa. I had him at one point and no one would ante up in a trade for him.

Marleau has been offered around many times. And again. A guy who gets shots goals assists shp and ppp and no one would make a move. Why? Because I would ask for a real good player in return. Be it Hartnell or a star player like Thornton or ovenchicken. But Marleau really provides a ton. As much or more as many many guys are right now...more than absolutely everyone.

Edited because typed on phone and was bad bad. Worse than ever

But like i said continue to underrate and overrate. You can think my team is not that god all you want. But it's the sum of parts not just 1-2 stars that make a fantasy team. I am always at or near the top for a reason. The same reason Corinthians and Manimal are. And I have made several deals with both. Because we think with our heads instead of foloowing what the media and others tell us makes a player good.

[Manimal]

3 people way way undervalue and in some cases overvalue (when they have them) starting goalies who are clear number 1 guys. Mason Nabokov theodore in the past have all been fa. Reimer. rubbish I got Niemi as a free agent. These guys are gas because played on bad teams and did not win. Yet...they were a hell of alot more valuable than the split goalies like they have in Washington Colorado St. Louis etc. because they rack up way more than 1 category.

Colorado is a bad example. Varlamov has started all but one game so far

[batdad]

Yeah this year they are. I was more about last year with them.

It is interesting to me as I thought about this. The guys that have actually negotiated with me work out deals in the end that both are happy with. The guys who complain about my offers are the guys who don't negotiate. They just decline the trade. So for a bit I try to encourage them to negotiate and not just accept decline with other offers and comments. But they just keep saying no and getting mad and make comments here.

I don't expect unto accept my first offer. In fact the one time that happened I was shocked. And people screamed I had ripped off joe. In the end it worked out evenish but man were people mad.

So again I will say the first offer from me is not expected to be accepted bin fact I cancel offers after makin them quite often because I think they will be. I find it funny that no one ever comes back with something off those cancelled ones. I know they get a note about it. Usually that offer I cancelled I decide was too one sided against me.

So please take it seriously when I say I don't expect an offer to be accepted. For me half or more of the fun of this is the negotiation. There have been very few if any offers I have received that I do not come back with a counter proposal.

Again if my team is so bad why am I always near the top? I guess it is dumb luck.

[batdad]

Every once in awhile, people compare their teams to others, and they feel their team is as good as someone elses. So...there is one other way to calculate how the teams are doing. That is aggregate (totals) format. Which is what I believe is being referred to when someone says their team is close to someone else's team, or maybe even better.

In the aggregate form, for those who were not here when we started, it was based on the total standings---when you look at the standings page, not the win-loss record we do in the week to week. 14 points are given to each team that leads a category, 13 to 2nd place, 12 to 3rd....all the way down to 1 for 14th place. Ties are added up and averaged. SO if three people are tied for 1st 14+13+12/3 gives you what each team gets which is 13 points. This is the same at each tie level.

SO I took the liberty of doing this for the totals after the 2nd week. It gives you a brief glimpse at where your team stands in a different way. And how close you really are to teams you say you are as good as.

1st place===Corinthians Red Army 137.5 (add up the totals of each category--12 categories)
2nd place===Sancouver Senitals... 131
3rd place=== WIld Boars..............120.5
4th place=== Surahammer Slippers.107.5
5th place====Black Bears.............99
6th place====GLasgow Goons.......91.5
7th place====Cammalleri/Meatbal..91
8th place===West Can Canucks....89.5
9th place====Vasteras Vikings....83.5
10th place===Don't Toews Me....82
11th place===HC Franzen..........76.5
12th place===Prague Dead P......66.5
13th place===Minnesota TItans..56.5
14th place===Concussin Jxn......35.5


So as you can see Glasgow Goons have had a pretty tough schedule, Vasteras Vikings a pretty easy schedule so far. There seems to be a bit of separation already at least from 2nd/3rd-4th/5th and in the bottom 4-5 teams.

So I ask you friends? How bad is my team again? How many ways does it have to be shown to some of you?

Now I am not being mean or angry, just pointing things out....to help some of the guys who seem to get a bit upset and say their team is as good or better than mine. If they were, stats would bear it out. So...at this point of the season there are a few guys who need to reevaluate what they are doing, and attempt to move up to the elite status of a few of the teams. I consider elite teams to be: Corinthians, Wild Boars, Sancouver, and yes but just...Surahammer. If you are over 100 points you are elite, under it...you are not.

[timmy_t]

Let's work on a trade Batdad... My only untouchables are Zetterberg and Crawford...

[visualdarkness]

Sorry if I sounded harsh batdad but it was mostly because I lost my temper after basically being called stupid for having Bryz on the block. At the time I put him up there there was rumors of him losing the nr1 spot (possibly killing his value in the future) so I put him there just to see what I could get for him at the time. Just because he is on my block doesn't mean that I will trade him for scrap-

Your team is really strong and you win the "not as sought after" categories just like I try to do. Actually that was the main reason why I traded away Suter for Wideman because he brought more PIMs for example and as good as Burrows is (way tougher to trade away than Suter) he was losing his go to role in Vancouver and I was lucky getting his replacement in Kassian. For sure he's still of great value but I feel that I dodged a bullet too a degree. Toews is an investment for the future and I think it's a wise one.

Blocked shots, +/- and SH and to some degree PIMs are really tough to predict from a weekly view as they are heavily based on how the players teams are doing and I'm impressed with how some guys here manages to research them perfectly. I try but I'm not the best at it in this league.

[batdad]

My advice to you visual...patience. You dumped Burr too soon. Maybe now is the time for me. But with AV as coach his role is very fluid. Last game he was back with the twins. He is getting 2nd pp time something he never got b4. And Bryz? Again panic button. Someone maybe me could have got him well below value. A bad start does not mean a bad year just like a good start does not mean you win the cup. You just had to look at my team name for that.

Really fantasy hockey with our size rosters is as close to being a GM as you can get save EhM and fhm on line.
I am patient with my guys. Otherwise carter Legwand Bieksa and burrows and maybe green and ribeiro would be gone.

Marleau has been close to gone 5x. Glad I kept him.

Oh and if you look...I lead the league in a couple of glamour categories as well.

I want you all to strive to beat me. And Corinthians. How do we let a guy from Brazil beat us? Ugh. Only things worse would be a Brit or a Leafs fan. Btw almost made a deal for kessel today but backed off b4 I got a response. Still possible though.

And Timmy-make me an offer. You can guess who will cost you and who won't.

No apologies guys. Not needed. Frustration is normal. Now beat me. I dare you.

[batdad]

Wow. Now that is a trade. 2 years ago what a blockbuster. Now maybe the best player in that deal is eating 40000 hot dogs per day. Lol. No really a good gamble on both sides that guys get it together.

[timmy_t]

Big trade- is that the first of the actual season?

[visualdarkness]

It's the first big one but I actually sent the first offer that got accepted this season!
Interesting trade as both guys traded completely different strength with another. I think both teams probably got stronger and I don't like it.

[batdad]

Both lost something to get something. Stronger each in a couple of areas weaker in others. Could be a wash but fits team needs well. I am honestly not sure where my boys match up to fit needs right now. So happy with goon Clowe.

[batdad]

Oh man weeks 5-6-7 look awesome.

Week 5: Senitals vs Wild Boards
Week 6: Senitals vs Corinthians
Week 7: Corinthians vs Wild Boars.

Um...wow. Bang it up. Best record in those three finishes 1st I bet.

[batdad]

Timmy-THat trade offer was pretty good. Ribeiro/Ekman-Larson for Kane/Suter. But....I really like what Ekman Larson is doing for my team. And Suter....not so much right now. Ribeiro is providing more assists than anyone on my team, and I cannot let him go for a LW. I already have Kunitz, Marleau, Clowe, Conacher who only have LW listed as position....and so far they are playing alot on the same days between the 3 teams they play for. I have to dress those guys, so right now Kaner gets little ice unless different day, which is too risky.

My right side is where i need some help...willing to move Alfredsson, Neil and a dman (either Green, White or Staal) for an upgrade on the right side and a dman not as high caliber as those three...Green worth a little more than the other two, but not much). Also looking for down the middle upgrade. LW is kind of set though, and Kane not going to fit right now.

Willing also to part with 1 of Eakin, Nielsen or Legwand down the middle....2 of those three sucking right now though.

Jeff Carter and Neuvirth might also be available to upgrade my right side or centre.

[timmy_t]

Thanks for the counter offer - I'll look at it and respond properly tonight

[batdad]

That offer kind of deserves the old ---Pffft. But if you read the comments I have no expectation of accept. If you do, okay. And the above is kind of where I am looking....C and RW upgrades....but still pretty happy overall with the team.

[batdad]

Just an FYI for all of you. With the shortened season, we have a 10 game reg season as you know. And I just looked....Only the TOP 4 teams make the playoffs. The rest are automatic to the consolation. I was just assuming that playoffs would be top 8 teams, and we would have 3 playoff weeks. But we do not. There are only 2.

Not a big deal to me, actually kind of a good idea.
But....pressure is now on boys,

[Manimal]

Just an FYI for all of you. With the shortened season, we have a 10 game reg season as you know. And I just looked....Only the TOP 4 teams make the playoffs. The rest are automatic to the consolation. I was just assuming that playoffs would be top 8 teams, and we would have 3 playoff weeks. But we do not. There are only 2.

Not a big deal to me, actually kind of a good idea.
But....pressure is now on boys,

Cool!

It makes the regular season count more than before.
I actually had no idea about this

[visualdarkness]

And Suter....not so much right now.

Even I thought I would lose a lot by trading Suter for Wideman but right now it's not even close with Wideman being way more productive.

[batdad]

Ouch on that de yesterday. Kipper in trouble. Ow ow ow. Great timing to move him. Who knew?