Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15 / FHM 2

[archibalduk]

I've split the recent posts in the Teaser Thread into this thread as I feel it is veering off topic somewhat.

[KevT90]

I agree, I am one of those, I've played all versions of EHM and joined this website in 2006. I didn't even buy FHM because of what I've read about it and seen of it. But I was just saying I agree I didn't see a problem for Sebastian to show what is coming, this is what the last couple of posts were talking about. Yes FHM as a long way to go but it seems as they are putting the work in to get there also !

[nino33]

I understand that there was a match engine being promised and that will only come with the version 2 of the new release.

Actually that's not correct. The game people purchased in September 2013, that was initially a complete failure, the match engine was promised for that game back in January 2014. And now, 17 months later, we're still waiting...

I think Sebastian and FHM got a "free pass" the first time. And I don't think it's reasonable that they think they should get one now, after what they've produced thus far was such a disappointment.

I posted to question his words, not his posting screenshots.
I was concerned when I saw FHM1's "simulation" as "not bad" - I didn't think this should be ignored
The simulation was bad, and it was only as a result of complaints that we became aware that it wasn't actually a simulation of a hockey game, it was a number/stats generator...and that suddenly explained why tactics were so lacking...the game was not what people expected, not what was promised, and was a horrible failure.

I also feel Sebastian saying "The concept of the old engine was mostly for long-time simulating" is concerning...that's not what was said from the beginning, this is way after the fact "reframing" the failure in a positive light.

If people had known from the beginning what type of simulation they were getting, and what is was mostly for, would they still have purchased FHM1? I actually would have (to support the development) but I would have never expected anything from version 1 if I'd known the truth from the beginning...for me it's the promises and PR that produce expectations. And my trust was lost and needs to be regained, so I sure hope we're getting the truth from the beginning with FHM2

I know I read on the FHM/OOTP forums that they've "learned their lesson" after FHM1...but so far, there's no real evidence to prove this. It's not like gameplay/development is discussed or shared...we're not getting an idea how the game will develop from year to year, or what is actually doable and what isn't, etc

One complain always was that we don't post much about the development process. Thats why I post this and people give feedback and we use that to improve

The posting of screenshots is not posting about the development process IMO (when you're releasing a game when the season's essentially over, and make no reference to the FHM1 Match Engine patch that's long overdue, and they're posted weeks before FHM2's release, then the screenshots come across to me as eye candy without any development process context...if things don't work, it doesn't matter what you've included/what it looks like IMO)

Also, I thought the previous complaints about the development process was mostly about how there's almost no discussion about about the actual gameplay/development (which is still the case).

Bottom line is if you release a decent/vastly improved game you'll be fine...borrowing from the baseball world, "if you build it, they will come"

[KevT90]

I believe Sebastian or somebody else had mentioned there would be no such patch. The new game engine will only appear for the first time in FHM2. It's understandably a big disappointment for those who bought the game.

I hear your point, and I said it was legitimate also. I just thought he should be allowed to post whatever without getting called all the time. Only time will tell what will be delivered next. EHM is somewhat effective but it's the same game as in 2005 ... i cannot say the evolution of EHM has been fantastic, especially the in game tactics. FHM seems to be evolving faster than what EHM is at the moment so who knows what the future as to offer.

[nino33]

I believe Sebastian or somebody else had mentioned there would be no such patch. The new game engine will only appear for the first time in FHM2

That's news to me

I hear your point, and I said it was legitimate also. I just thought he should be allowed to post whatever without getting called all the time.

You don't get my point if you think he should be allowed to post "whatever without getting called all the time" (especially when part of my point was people haven't been saying anything)

FHM seems to be evolving faster than what EHM is at the moment so who knows what the future as to offer.

How do you think FHM has evolved? There's been one version, it wasn't good...how do you think that's evolving?

[KevT90]

(especially when part of my point was people haven't been saying anything)

What do you mean ?

How do you think FHM has evolved? There's been one version, it wasn't good...how do you think that's evolving?

Well a revamped second version following a first version within 2 years is somewhat evolving (no matter how pants the first game was). EHM: EA is essentially the same game (minus little tweak) as EHM 2007 which was like EHM 2005. I like EHM. I bought the EA the day it came out but I don't find it had evolved much. And EA is only to test the market, no one can say if it will make it pass this stage ...

[nino33]

(especially when part of my point was people haven't been saying anything)

What do you mean ?

Like I said, I think Sebastian and FHM got a "free pass" the first time (and I thought it was kinda happening again)

How do you think FHM has evolved? There's been one version, it wasn't good...how do you think that's evolving?

Well a revamped second version following a first version within 2 years is somewhat evolving (no matter how pants the first game was). EHM: EA is essentially the same game (minus little tweak) as EHM 2007 which was like EHM 2005. I like EHM. I bought the EA the day it came out but I don't find it had evolved much. And EA is only to test the market, no one can say if it will make it pass this stage ...

Sorry, but what you're saying is part of the "free pass" I was talking about. They haven't released a revamped version yet, and you're talking it up and also adding negative comments towards EHM...

EHM:EA seems to have been up front and honest, and has been updating things every two weeks, and given the depth that already exists there's still lots to get optimally working. And it's actually more "under the hood" than a little tweak as you describe, and given the international play and recent improvements, and the continued biweekly updates, the future looks OK-Good. While FHM2 is based on hopes and promises (and we all hope those hopes and promises are fulfilled)

[KevT90]

FHM2 is not out so it's hard to talk about it and make reference but it will supposedly be an improved game. If it`s not well yes there's a problem with the information OOTP releases to the public, a trust issue, and an issue with how they build a game. Their Baseball simulation game is doing well so I don`t see why they wouldn`t have the programming knowledge to improve their hockey game.

EHM:EA have been up front and honest cause they only said they would release updates every two weeks. OOTP made a mistake by promising a big change, EHM won't make that mistake cause they probably know better and don't know when and if the Early Access will ever make it through (And I hope it will be released). from All of the updates so far, it`s been mostly UI and graphical changes, the addition of a couple minor leagues and minor bug fix. The many improved AI updates may have made a difference but I can barely notice it, if not at all in certain aspect because the AI still is as dumb and make the same bad decisions. they just do them with different players and at other time intervals.

And you talk about depths but sometimes I question myself just like Radiskull had posted in the official practice thread. Player development seems to be affected by absolutely nothing. Same with coach attributes. Tactics are broken in my opinion too and who knows what effect they really have. They are the same as when the game was created. Example, the 0-4 formation does`t exist, example Forecheck, it seems like it's there as a bug. If you haven`t touched tactics at all in a simulation game for over 10 years I can't say it`s evolving. And you can`t get an explanation of the above by no one, not even the devs.

Anyway all this is personal opinions. I still play EHM and bought every game and never bought FHM so I can`t be seen as being on their side.

[batdad]

Different people coding the two games my friend. Totally different to code hockey and baseball. Baseball is so stat based on who succeeds, hockey not as much. One is not harder than the other really, other than easier to CODE for stats than for systems intangibles and emotions. You cannot EVER compare OOTP baseball product to FHM. Sebastien will tell you that himself. Totally different ballgame so to speak.

And you don't have more confidence in the EHM Team because they will not make the same mistakes FHM guys have made? Really? That is counter to logic. Again, not to say FHM will not eventually overcome their issues and their past performance, they may very well. But in my head I have way more confidence in Riz and his team than the FHM guys, solely based on the fact that they are delivering on what they said in a timely fashion. As for changes--think you need to play EHM more to show me you do not see the changes. Lists are available as to how big the changes are, and how much more flexible the game is becoming as time goes on. Remember, these guys told us they were "In process" of changing the core structure of how the game was coded as they were doing it. and then...they did it....IN TWO WEEKS.

Player development is totally affected by coaching staff, practice regimen, playing time, and quality of teammates. Clear to me. Just not as OVERNIGHT as previous versions were, and yeah does it need some tweaking. IT does, and it will be. Because EHM delivers. Riz delivers. Always has.

Of course it is personal opinion....no one is questionning that, just questionning the logic behind the opinion, which is also allowed and totally clear.

THe defense and willingness to forgive FHM developer mistakes is what is leading people to ask you about how you can feel FHM is on a better track than EHM, and then you combine that with your constant criticism of EHM, and you get what you get.

We cannot totally say at all if FHM2 will be a good game or not. that is all anyone is saying. It is not out yet, so how can anyone say? You can post zillions of screen shots, but if the game comes out and does not work the way people want it to...it is bad. We can criticize and defend EHM because the game is out and has flaws and has good things. easy to rip em. Easy to defend words of FHM people, but really....why would I? They have not delivered anything they promised as yet. EHM has.

[Duranium]

I believe Sebastian or somebody else had mentioned there would be no such patch. The new game engine will only appear for the first time in FHM2

That's news to me

I hear your point, and I said it was legitimate also. I just thought he should be allowed to post whatever without getting called all the time.

You don't get my point if you think he should be allowed to post "whatever without getting called all the time" (especially when part of my point was people haven't been saying anything)

FHM seems to be evolving faster than what EHM is at the moment so who knows what the future as to offer.

How do you think FHM has evolved? There's been one version, it wasn't good...how do you think that's evolving?

It´s a 2 man team working their butts off to develop a quality hockey managment sim for the future -VS- a larger company who starts to milk money out of discontinued game ,on the back of OOTP after FHM somehow breathed new interest into this game genre.

So to put it into context after your eternal OOTP bashing - EHM:EA is bascically the same game as EHM 07 with not even the closest sign from the company if further developing it , just milking out some thousands of euros out of the Early Access version, or whatever else.

After testing the game for weeks now (quicksim, enhanced, various tactics, tinkering with coaching staff, etc.) i can tell you that EHM:EA has flaws in nearly every aspect of the game (ratings, AI trading, practice, and on and on.......)

When FHM2 comes out and the match engine will be anywhere close to EHMs, SI should start to put some work into their freeware game from 2007 as the customization possibilities, online playing AND a realistic historical mode from the 30´s on will hopefully put Seb into the drivers seat then

Anyway, i´ll continue to throw cash at OOTP & SI as it helps both games evolving and approx. €60 a year for both games is something i can survive

[archibalduk]

I believe Sebastian or somebody else had mentioned there would be no such patch. The new game engine will only appear for the first time in FHM2. It's understandably a big disappointment for those who bought the game.

No, there will be a match engine patch for FHM 1. It was originally promised for something like a March or May 2014 release IIRC.

I hear your point, and I said it was legitimate also. I just thought he should be allowed to post whatever without getting called all the time. Only time will tell what will be delivered next. EHM is somewhat effective but it's the same game as in 2005 ... i cannot say the evolution of EHM has been fantastic, especially the in game tactics. FHM seems to be evolving faster than what EHM is at the moment so who knows what the future as to offer.

I've been largely ignoring this thread as I'm not interested in engaging in the debate, but the above quote is absolute madness. EHM 2005 didn't even have the 2d match engine for a start! It clearly isn't the same game as EA.

As for the difference between EHM 2007 and EA; it is massive. The introduction of Player Roles, virtually all hardcoded data removed and now DB driven (and a significantly improved DB structure), all new player regen models, improved player and non-player attribute modelling, improved 2D engine, new rules added (e.g. hybrid icing), improved trading AI - and that's just off the top of my head. The reason for all of the bugs that have been cropping up? It's because so much code has changed.

It´s a 2 man team working their butts off to develop a quality hockey managment sim for the future -VS- a larger company who starts to milk money out of discontinued game ,on the back of OOTP after FHM somehow breathed new interest into this game genre.

It's pretty even now in that respect. It has been Riz who has been working on the game in his free time for the majority of the time. Yes, SI have massive resources, but it's really just Riz working on the game (and in amongst working on FM).

Again, given the improvements that EA has over 2007 for only around £10 is clearly not milking (and it is clearly not discontinued if it is being developed ). The bugs are cropping up because so many things have changed behind the scenes and they don't have many resources in terms of beta testing (hence the Early Access).

I'm not really sure the game coming back is anything to do with interest in FHM. I think it is largely to do with the fact that users have continued to develop DB updates on a constant basis since EHM 2007's cancellation.

[Alessandro]

Because EHM delivers. Riz delivers. Always has.

This is IMHO the true difference. Sebastien is a great guy and I am sure he's working his ass off for FHM2, but he is too inconsistant. And maybe a bit slow. That being said, the fact that we have two games instead of one is good. Very good. We should really hope that both games are successful, and I truly do. I prefer EHM, but I am sure that FHM 2 will be a good game and I hope it can be a game its fans can enjoy and spend a lot of time with.

[archibalduk]

We should really hope that both games are successful, and I truly do.

Me too. There are numerous things I see in FHM 2 and think that's very neat. Hopefully we'll see things all fall into place in the long run.

[nino33]

Anyway all this is personal opinions. I still play EHM and bought every game and never bought FHM so I can`t be seen as being on their side.

No, what I stated was facts, from the long delay patch to your incorrect use of evolved (a word that indicates past tense can't be used about a future event). Your positive view of FHM's future (despite the history) is an opinion

Their Baseball simulation game is doing well so I don`t see why they wouldn`t have the programming knowledge to improve their hockey game.

I played statistically accurate baseball board games in the early 1980s. IMO coding for baseball is astronomically easier than coding for hockey...from the fact that the action continuously stops and starts (and with strikes/balls/foul balls the vast majority of the time the vast majority of players are completely uninvolved in gameplay!), to the fact that hockey is a worldwide game and baseball's not, to the fact that "moneyball" has shown even IRL baseball can be reduced to numbers!

And...despite they're on version 16 there's still AI issues if you play the game yourself (like there are with EHM). When I researched OOTP when FHM was announced I saw references to promoting new features every year but not getting said features/other features to work as advertised (for example, last year's 3D stadiums that were marketed but never worked).

I'm not anti OOTP or anti FHM. I'm not posting on their sites and trying to "troll" anyone. I'm posting/replying on pretty much the only site I post on, that I've been associated with for 5 years, the site that's been a strong EHM supporter and has supported EHM with rosters (including my own work)...and I admit I feel a little offended when other members post their opinions on FHM that border on the "fanboy" (way to much opinion, few/no facts) while at the same time taking shots at EHM (frequently shots that are incorrect too)

I was on two occasions last year an FHM researcher, and quit both times.
I have tried to still be realistically supportive of FHM. I bought FHM1 and OOTP to support the company.
Even as recently as three days ago I was trying to be helpful/factual when I posted some data about NHL player nationality on the FHM forums.
I admit I like words, and I think words matter, and I've held a lot in before recently responding to the words of others because IMO a response was needed

[nino33]

It´s a 2 man team working their butts off to develop a quality hockey managment sim for the future -VS- a larger company who starts to milk money out of discontinued game ,on the back of OOTP after FHM somehow breathed new interest into this game genre.

So to put it into context after your eternal OOTP bashing - EHM:EA is bascically the same game as EHM 07 with not even the closest sign from the company if further developing it , just milking out some thousands of euros out of the Early Access version, or whatever else.

Yeah, the company that sold 500,000 games of FM in 2014, and 1,000,000 FM games in 2013, and over 1,500,000 games in 2012...yeah they need to sell those 20,000 copies of EHM:EA

after your eternal OOTP bashing

Can you quote any of this "eternal OOTP bashing"?...

For me you don't have a lot of credibility. One recent reason is you're the guy that has referred to FHM2's GUI as "way better than EHM" based on just screen shots (and isn't "way better than EHM" based on screenshots you bashing EHM?)

When FHM2 comes out and the match engine will be anywhere close to EHMs

Yeah, the reason why FHM is over a year late in providing the Match Engine patch is because things are going so well! They're two weeks away from when FHM2 is supposed to be released, and 12+ months late on the patch, and yet no screenshots/references to the Match Engine patch...do you think this is a good sign? A sign your hope is well placed?

When FHM2 comes out and the match engine will be anywhere close to EHMs, SI should start to put some work into their freeware game from 2007 as the customization possibilities, online playing AND a realistic historical mode from the 30´s on will hopefully put Seb into the drivers seat then

Wow, seriously, do you read anything on TBL? The customization possibilities are the "under the hood" stuff, and there'll be 30 player online before Early Access is done (and real online play, where you can log in anytime, and where if you want you can play games live...by the way, the online play was/is part of EHM07, but with a max of 14 human GMs)

And I LOVE the historical databases, but FHM was such a let down..."just the NHL" doesn't do it for me at all.
I had hoped that I'd be able to transfer my 1974 database to FHM, but in that sense FHM (and OOTP) isn't as customizable as even EHM07.
I prefer a hockey world of dozens of leagues, international competition, etc

I'm hoping/thinking that in the future the retro 1974-1979-1998-2006 databases available for EHM will all be even more realistic (i.e. with correct league structure/rules)

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Both games have fans and I hope both sides respect each other. I never said a single bad word about EHM, not here and not on the OOTP board. Everybody should be thankful about having two hockey games available and actively developed in the future, I'm pretty sure the market is big enough for both. Some will like EHM more, some FHM and (hopefully) a lot will just buy both. Competition is a good thing, both sides push each other to make the games better and better over the years. Both sides will put in new stuff and the other game can improve on it (or do it another way and make it maybe even better). The new player roles in EHM:EA sound very familiar to the FHM template system (and I really don't mean that in a bad way! It just shows that FHM had some good ideas as well).

@ Nino33 and batdad: I fully understand if you have no trust in us anymore. FHM 2014 was not what we hoped for, we made a few bad decisions during development and we stood up for it with a very open refund policy. For FHM 2 we made a lot of changes. We will not release the game before we are 100% happy with it. Maybe, after some time, you guys will check it out, I would really love to hear your feedback someday. But please don't think we have no respect for Riz and EHM. Believe me, since EHM's return our sale numbers went up quit a bit so you directly see the positive effect both games have on each other.

I hope we can rest the topic now and enjoy playing EHM, following both games development and in a few weeks to play FHM 2 as well.

[nino33]

The new player roles in EHM:EA sound very familiar to the FHM template system (and I really don't mean that in a bad way! It just shows that FHM had some good ideas as well).

I agree

[Duranium]

It´s a 2 man team working their butts off to develop a quality hockey managment sim for the future -VS- a larger company who starts to milk money out of discontinued game ,on the back of OOTP after FHM somehow breathed new interest into this game genre.

So to put it into context after your eternal OOTP bashing - EHM:EA is bascically the same game as EHM 07 with not even the closest sign from the company if further developing it , just milking out some thousands of euros out of the Early Access version, or whatever else.

Yeah, the company that sold 500,000 games of FM in 2014, and 1,000,000 FM games in 2013, and over 1,500,000 games in 2012...yeah they need to sell those 20,000 copies of EHM:EA


Yeah, they have the resources and still they don´t commit full-time from the start, instead they release the same game with some glittery stuff added.
The point is, i just don´t understand the all-doom comments on FHM as it was the first version and it went downhill....so what?
Riz , or other SI guys (don´t know) have/had the benefit of an already working game, with iconic status for some ppl, for years, so definetly a kickstart - Seb works on the 2nd version within 2 1/2 years and i´m ok with it that it has (will still have) some growing pains.

What´s the point in having an, admittedly , way better engine in EHM:EA when it´s still totally unclear (i´m not alone on this issue) how exactly tactics work in the game, if they affect the game at all, OR results are totally unrealistc (f.e....last 4 NYR AI games in my current test have been 9-6, 0-7, 0-0, 7-5), 3rd pairing d-man like Hunwick finish the season with 60pts while OEL on my Coyotes goes pointless for 35!! games, etc. etc. etc.

To put the argument to the rest - i hope both games sell gazillions of copies and that muchos jugadores will continue to support both games with their cash

[nino33]

What´s the point in having an, admittedly , way better engine in EHM:EA when it´s still totally unclear (i´m not alone on this issue) how exactly tactics work in the game, if they affect the game at all, OR results are totally unrealistc (f.e....last 4 NYR AI games in my current test have been 9-6, 0-7, 0-0, 7-5), 3rd pairing d-man like Hunwick finish the season with 60pts while OEL on my Coyotes goes pointless for 35!! games, etc. etc. etc.

Seriously, you need to search/read Batdad's posts because in recent months he's given TONS of tactical advice (and he dominates the game like no other)...I'm not saying you're alone on the issue, but I am saying it's not a problem that can't be fixed by you and the others that don't understand (in fact there's a thread about EHM:EA being to easy specifically because those that understand tactics can dominate to easily!)



And with your "testing" do you have any real data?

For example, when I looked at EHM07 and how players' height, weight and CA developed over time I followed 125 different players (ages 12-29) over three different saves of 10-12 years, and I charted everything in an excel spreadsheet. http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 25+players I also kept (and still have) all the saves. I did similar testing with individual player Attributes and Staff Attributes too, and I also charted the data and kept the saves (only visible in the Research Forum, or shared via email with just the few researchers we had)

I think real data's a key, and I'm sure I'll be looking at things closer once the database is in better shape (most Player Roles haven't even been set yet!)

But please don't think we have no respect for Riz and EHM.

Yeah, the company that sold 500,000 games of FM in 2014, and 1,000,000 FM games in 2013, and over 1,500,000 games in 2012...yeah they need to sell those 20,000 copies of EHM:EA

I don't get the impression you're on the same page as Sebastian

To put the argument to the rest

Uh no, you didn't put anything to rest.
You didn't quote anything to back up your previous accusations I bashed OOTP, while continuing to bash EHM/SI.
And you speak incorrectly about tactics (just because you don't understand, don't blame the game).
With friends like you helping FHM I'm not sure they need enemies

[batdad]

Nino--he is playing on QUICK SIM> CAn tell it clearly from his stats. HIgh scoring high rated defensemen with high scores. I can tell that in 5 seconds flat, data or no data. Why? Because i actually play EHM and check into the numbers and read the posts about it here and on SI forums and on HF. ALL OF THEM. And I am not exactly saying EHM has no problems am I? Nor am I saying it is the greatest game EVAH. Just saying it is better and the development team is more respected by me because they have proven themselves worthy of the respect over time. Sorry Sebastien, it is not that I do not respect you and what you are trying to do. It is that I trust and respect Riz more because he has proven himself over and over and over....and he was even coming here 5 years after EHM 2007 was released and making posts that helped us understand the inner workings of the game so we could make our DB's more and more realistic, while all the while listening to our concerns about the game and issues with it, as well as what we wanted. You Seb have not had the opportunity to do that yet, I hope you get it, and I hope you take advantage of it when the time comes. But first you have to release a game that is a hockey simulator. So far, by your own admission you have not.

OH yeah and Duranium has no clue that for years...since the start of EHM 2007 Riz has told us that absolutely no way will quick sim give you accurate results, that it was a work in progress to get that right when the game got shut down, and that is still the case now. QUICK SIM DOES NOT GIVE ACCURATE RESULTS>
It is clear you have read nothing about EHM and what it does from those who have played it and are experienced. If you have you sure as heck were not understanding what you read or taking it in. If you had you would know we all know quick sim is not accurate, and never has been You would know it is being worked on, and you would know that tactics absolutely affect the game ....proven by results some of us have had while coaching the teams, vs having people not coach the teams. And even having me coach a team, vs not coach the exact same team...totally different results.

So yes tactics work. I think if you read the stuff through here it will be proven they do.

Nino-thanks for the compliment, but it is lost on many, and not really a guru about it. Think I got lucky once and have continued to get lucky.

He can continue and so can everyone to claim FHM2 superiority---maybe he is beta testing it? If he is he should probably shut up as he cannot give anything away since he has a non disclosure agreement if he is--and until we actually have our hands on a game where people we know and trust tell us it will be a good game for us, we are not going to buy it.

Sebastien--I would suggest you go back and read my post again. Not saying I wanted my money back. Saying I hope....that the next version will be better. I really do. I really hope it looks and feels like a hockey game. I believe on your site I was one of the first to post it felt like a random number generator. And low and behold...I was right. SO I stopped playing, and you promised a patch, and well....nothing 1 1/2 years later. Sorry, no matter the reason and no matter the supposed apology that is not good enough for me to just be a lemming and fall in line nad believe FHM2 will be a great game. Duranium may believe and trust in you and he may also believe in unicorns. I do not.

I hope that as time moves on you get this right and we have more than promises of rainbows and unicorns and actually get a rainbow or unicorn. Proof is in the pudding. Prove the pudding. Please.

If it comes out and it sucks again...please do not come back here and post about how it is going to be great in the future and we have made mistakes and we apologize. As Nino says, still have not seen any actual QUOTE of your apology. Just you saying after the fact you apologized. Which I guess on its own serves as an apology.

[RomaGoth]

I believe Sebastian or somebody else had mentioned there would be no such patch. The new game engine will only appear for the first time in FHM2

That's news to me

I hear your point, and I said it was legitimate also. I just thought he should be allowed to post whatever without getting called all the time.

You don't get my point if you think he should be allowed to post "whatever without getting called all the time" (especially when part of my point was people haven't been saying anything)

FHM seems to be evolving faster than what EHM is at the moment so who knows what the future as to offer.

How do you think FHM has evolved? There's been one version, it wasn't good...how do you think that's evolving?

It´s a 2 man team working their butts off to develop a quality hockey managment sim for the future -VS- a larger company who starts to milk money out of discontinued game ,on the back of OOTP after FHM somehow breathed new interest into this game genre.

So to put it into context after your eternal OOTP bashing - EHM:EA is bascically the same game as EHM 07 with not even the closest sign from the company if further developing it , just milking out some thousands of euros out of the Early Access version, or whatever else.

After testing the game for weeks now (quicksim, enhanced, various tactics, tinkering with coaching staff, etc.) i can tell you that EHM:EA has flaws in nearly every aspect of the game (ratings, AI trading, practice, and on and on.......)

When FHM2 comes out and the match engine will be anywhere close to EHMs, SI should start to put some work into their freeware game from 2007 as the customization possibilities, online playing AND a realistic historical mode from the 30´s on will hopefully put Seb into the drivers seat then

Anyway, i´ll continue to throw cash at OOTP & SI as it helps both games evolving and approx. €60 a year for both games is something i can survive

Not to beat a dead horse (and boy do I wish this horse would die already), but your statement about SI milking money from a discontinued game is absurd. Riz has been upfront from the very beginning about EHM: EA that they would be updating the game about every 2 weeks and so far they have been spot on with their promise. Also, EHM: EA is very different from EHM 2005, perhaps the screenshots look the same if you don't look too closely but other than that, much "under the hood" has changed (as mentioned by Batdad).

The rest of your post makes no sense and makes my head hurt. Of course, you appear to be a Penguins fan so that could be it too.

[Realpity]

I sum it up as how many of us have stuck with EHM through it's various versions and the long spell of strictly fan based support ... versus ... how many of us wasted money on FHM that didn't work and have now given up ... I know where my money's going, to the working game.
We all, who have purchased and played EA, can see for ourselves all the changes and such ... if FHM2 ever sees the light of day, good luck to it, but unless it is so amazingly better (and I sincerely doubt that) I know where my money will soley continue to go ... to the EHM game(s) I've been playing and loving for years. FHM wasn't huge dollars, but $1 or $100 wasted is still wasted and gone.
Others can argue all they want but really should just give it a rest until such time as there actually is a playable FHM to even be able to compare the games.