Player attributes and development

Mauso · Post by **Mauso** » Tue May 26, 2015 9:59 am

Hey guys, Im in need of a help with player training/development. Im newbie and so far I spent 3 seasons in Colorado. But Im dissapointed with McKinnons improvement during this period. He only improved like 1 or 2 attributes in most of his skills while other players with similar talent has improved significantly (Drouin for example is a lot better than him now) Is it because he hit cap of his potential in early age or stg is not working properly?

Screenies

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Tue May 26, 2015 3:00 pm

I'm finding the same TBH, players for human managers don't seem to develop as well.

Post by **batdad** » Tue May 26, 2015 5:17 pm

We need to find the practice schedules that make things work in the new EHM EA. People need to experiment a ton, for a length of time. The old ones from EHM 2007 do not seem to work, and there is a definite advantage for the AI managers.

comatose · Post by **comatose** » Wed May 27, 2015 3:36 am

I let the AI set training. Lots of my players develop really good. (My god Max Domi). Funny enough, MacK has never developed for me at all.

Post by **nino33** » Wed May 27, 2015 3:47 am

comatose wrote:I let the AI set training. Lots of my players develop really good.

That's sure the opposite of EHM07! HaHa
Maybe the new Player Roles are showing through with the improved AI development of players?

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 27, 2015 8:45 am

I dunno. Ai did well in old game as well, just did not with your own team, and I am not yet seeing my AI coaches develop my players.

Post by **nino33** » Wed May 27, 2015 1:39 pm

batdad wrote:I dunno. Ai did well in old game as well, just did not with your own team, and I am not yet seeing my AI coaches develop my players.

But you said a couple posts above "there is a definite advantage for the AI managers"?

sao.phim · Post by **sao.phim** » Wed May 27, 2015 2:29 pm

Maybe batdad meant by "AI Managers" General Managers of other teams..

From my experience with EA, player attributes increase very slowly - from my first three seasons with Flyers the only significant improvement was with Samuel Morin. Guys like Fiala, Laughton or Couturier have not changed much, even if I let them play top 6 minutes and they got high average ratings.
I used slightly modified "Malhotra's Good Practice" schedules and my coaching staff were guys like J. Quenneville, Berube and P. Maurice. True is, that during the season I used very often just "General" practice with everything set to "Medium", for one or two weeks each month. But usually I changed the practice schedule every week.
In EHM2005/2007 worked for me well playing my youngs with experienced players possessing high Influence attribute. In EA it did not have too much effect for them so far..

helpie · Post by **helpie** » Wed May 27, 2015 4:05 pm

If the attributes increase just by one or maybe two per season I wonder if there's a bug that game increases or checks the CA increase once or twice per year instead of monthly/bi-monthly/something.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 27, 2015 5:28 pm

Yes. Human controlled manager....allowing coach to coach....does not develop players as fast as AI manager with AI coach.
-Increases in stats are gradual...they show up every time they increase or decrease...not monthly or yearly or bi annual updates to the attributes. They improve or get worse whenever they improve get worse.
-As for CA checks...would not know...CA is something I pay zero attention to while playing. Never even looked in the editor. I leave that to the people doing the editing and report what I See in the game. My guess...because attributes gradually increase and they are tied to (Well make up entirely) CA....that CA is gradual as well.

Post by **Primis** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:24 pm

MacKinnon just plain does not develop well, it seems. I have yet to see him develop well in any of my games.

Human GM-controlled teams also don't develop well, period. I can leave my entire team set to Intense Everything for entire seasons, and 1 or 2 guys will show improvement and the rest show nothing. As batdad said, the other 29 team controlled by AI have a built-in huge advantage in developing their players at the moment. It's frustrating.

helpie · Post by **helpie** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:33 pm

Primis wrote:MacKinnon just plain does not develop well, it seems. I have yet to see him develop well in any of my games.

Human GM-controlled teams also don't develop well, period. I can leave my entire team set to Intense Everything for entire seasons, and 1 or 2 guys will show improvement and the rest show nothing. As batdad said, the other 29 team controlled by AI have a built-in huge advantage in developing their players at the moment. It's frustrating.

Yeah, that makes me think that human controlled teams' player development could be bugged.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:34 pm

Not bugged, just tuned down too low by SI from where it was in 2007 when it was way too high. Bug would mean it did not work. IT works, just slowly.

Rediscoveryx · Post by **Rediscoveryx** » Thu May 28, 2015 7:54 am

I guess the problem (from a development perspective) is to strike the right balance. Personally, I don't think it's reasonable for development to differ too much between teams at all. Maybe the game should have a pretty straight forward way of increasing player development with the human manager input only havint marginal effects either way.

It's not really reasonable to have practice schemes that lead to twice as good development as AI teams (as in EHM 07) and it's not really reasonable for it to be the other way round. Personally, I see exactly zero entertainment in the whole "create your own practice schemes" part of the game and would prefer to leave it to my assistants if I could count on the game engine simulating development that would roughly mirror that of other teams in the same league. Which would also be reasonable to expect imo.

sao.phim · Post by **sao.phim** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:43 am

Rediscoveryx wrote:I guess the problem (from a development perspective) is to strike the right balance. Personally, I don't think it's reasonable for development to differ too much between teams at all. Maybe the game should have a pretty straight forward way of increasing player development with the human manager input only havint marginal effects either way.

It's not really reasonable to have practice schemes that lead to twice as good development as AI teams (as in EHM 07) and it's not really reasonable for it to be the other way round. Personally, I see exactly zero entertainment in the whole "create your own practice schemes" part of the game and would prefer to leave it to my assistants if I could count on the game engine simulating development that would roughly mirror that of other teams in the same league. Which would also be reasonable to expect imo.

Well, I think, if there was some "automatic" way/process for prospects development, then it would marginalize the factor of your coaching staff hired for your team, practice schedules settings and playing/learning from your line mates. That would make the game less entertaining.
On the other hand I agree, that the difference looks quite significant.
But as stated batdad, maybe we just have to spend more time on it and try to find a way, how it is working better, through trial-and-error procedure..

Post by **nino33** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:03 pm

Rediscoveryx wrote:Personally, I don't think it's reasonable for development to differ too much between teams at all.

But it is realistic (all teams are not the same at developing their talent, and some are known for doing it well and others are known for not doing it well)

sao.phim wrote:if there was some "automatic" way/process for prospects development, then it would marginalize the factor of your coaching staff hired for your team, practice schedules settings and playing/learning from your line mates. That would make the game less entertaining.

I agree

IMO if something isn't working as intended, or not working ideally, it needs to be fixed/tweaked and not made simpler/automatic

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:13 pm

I think they need to fix the human development curve, it's becoming obvious it's too slow for many players. Despite good coaches and intense schedules, the AI is outstripping us badly. It makes more sense to let them have the picks and trade for the players a couple years into AI development than try to build a team yourself.

kuraeero · Post by **kuraeero** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:56 pm

Player development seems a bit weird at the moment. Played one season as Panthers and saw for example Huberdeau develop extremely well, gaining 2 or even 3 points in some areas, but then talent like Ekblad didn't really develop at all despite being in the same training schedule as Huberdeau. I also find it weird that I can train my players with all intensive training schedule during the season and the will cope with it just fine.

Post by **batdad** » Fri May 29, 2015 2:49 am

Yes to the all intensive issue. As for Ekblad vs Huberdeau....different positions different needs in training. Maybe your D coach in the areas Huberdeau improves is not as good as the F coach?

comatose · Post by **comatose** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:46 am

batdad wrote:Yes to the all intensive issue. As for Ekblad vs Huberdeau....different positions different needs in training. Maybe your D coach in the areas Huberdeau improves is not as good as the F coach?

Funny enough, just like MacK, never seen Ekblad develop past what he is. Regardless of save, technique, ai or human. Some players just don't develop for me

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:48 am

Can anyone post a screenshot of mental attributes actually changing apart from teamwork? Not had one single change for any player on other mental attributes in 3 years! Not in the AHL or NHL (in fact most of my players don't develop at all in the AHL).

I'm on 1-99 attributes as well so not 1 single point on any player is a huge issue!

Post by **Vadim10** » Sat May 30, 2015 10:56 am

I didn't happen on my roster, but a few of my draftpicks in the challenge playing in Junior Leagues had their attributes like determination, bravery etc. changing. Also I had i.e. Joacim Eriksson's influence changed by +1 during the season, but other changes rather don't happen

Post by **batdad** » Sat May 30, 2015 5:45 pm

Lemming--any of the mental attributes that develop will be VERY SLOW change, if they change at all. Many are fixed, at least in 2007. However, Riz has said I believe that a few will have subtle changes as players gain experience. So it is not like the physical and tech attributes which change day to day...the mental ones are more long term changes. 3 years is not likely a big sample. Have you taken over the AI teams as GM and looked at their attribute changes? Or used the EA assistant?

Just asking as I have not.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Sat May 30, 2015 7:05 pm

batdad wrote:Lemming--any of the mental attributes that develop will be VERY SLOW change, if they change at all. Many are fixed, at least in 2007. However, Riz has said I believe that a few will have subtle changes as players gain experience. So it is not like the physical and tech attributes which change day to day...the mental ones are more long term changes. 3 years is not likely a big sample. Have you taken over the AI teams as GM and looked at their attribute changes? Or used the EA assistant?

Just asking as I have not.

I haven't taken over any AI teams but might have a quick look - It's hard to tell but I thought a few of my former prospects have changed by a few points elsewhere.
Don't get me wrong not expecting miracles but I'd have thought I'd see at least one player have one point change in something (and I was wrong, I'm into my 5th year 18/19 season and now nearing the end of it), especially on 1-99 stats!
I'm seeing changes in technical and physical attributes, albeit slowly for most players; but apart from teamwork the mental area is showing nothing but grey and these players are getting 100 games a season at the moment. Maybe it just isn't displaying the changes properly?
I can always start a fresh game and compare, attributes aren't randomised are they?

Post by **batdad** » Sat May 30, 2015 7:24 pm

Nope--it will be displaying just fine, there is mention of a change or two above from someone. Attributes are not totally randomized for anyone, but those with -9 -10 etc Ca and PA--mainly young under 20 players will have different attributes each and every game. Those with attributes set to ZERO will have random for those attributes each game start up. There are players like that throughout the database.

It will not be a display issue. IT is just a process of learning the game and what does and does not work, change etc in development.

We do not know everything there is to know about EA development (just can go off what we know from 2007 and apply and adjust and go from there) THere are some changes, but not sure how dev is affected overall as not testing for that myself. Just from the notes of others and what I see in my game...SLOW DEVELOPMENT. Which is still better than overnight like 2007 (Right away) ,but is still TOO SLOW in the game now, and still TOO SLOW IN COMPARISON TO AI development.

I mean I See the shot of McKinnon above, in my game AI has him and his attributes? 6 dark green, rest of important ones for him are all 14-15-16. Difference between AI develop (AI manager and coach) vs Human manager AI coach and again vs Human manager Human coach is tremendous. Not sure what date those stats are from above for Mackinnon, guessing around December 2018.

Mental #s for Mackinnon in that game Dec 18 vs my game Jan 16???

ONly one mental attribute is different. In the shot above MacKinnon has 15 team work, in my game 14.

That does not necessarily mean team work develops, but I will assume it does.. BECAUSE....I believe all of Mackinnon starting mental attributes are pre set in game.

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