TBL Retro Rosters 1998/99 (Discussion & correction thread)

[Primis]

Calgary org features "Martin St. Louis" (who seems to be the real one) and "Martin St-Louis" (who is not, and is kinda' a dud). Same details for the two, except the first one has 5 lbs on the second one.

[bruins72]

I think I've got a save here from shortly before they were released. I'll send you a link for it. If this one isn't what you need I think I've got others on my work computer that might be a little after if that's better.

[nino33]

just checked Backes and he played 3 seasons at Breck before being released in August of 2001. He's still 17 and he had 3 really good seasons there. I don't see why the team would have released him though. Same exact thing with Parise, except that Parise played even better during those 3 years.

Why is the game handling them like this then?

I wonder after 3 seasons of development if their Reputation exceeds the league's or something, and so the player wouldn't sign back with them yet again because he feels he's "too good", even though he then has nowhere else then to play? I know there were similar things that happened with nino's 70's DB with young players... maybe there should be a single non-playable "Elite HS" league of a small handful of teams with a higher reputation that these guys can move on to, but stay in HS, instead of just not playing at all?

Good thinking Primis, worth looking into!
Bruins, if you have a save that would show it (end of last year/during their year of not playing) can you send me your any such saves so I can try to look into this possibility further (by checking Reputation using the Assistant)

The thing is, the game looks at everything as "just numbers" (a retro or modern database makes little to no difference to the game).
So if it's happening in the 1998 database, to me that means it's very likely happening in the current database too.....unless Riz has made improvements in this area with the new EHM? and if so, hopefully he could add the improved code to the 2006 rule set too

FYI the save was from June 2000; a 2001 save would likely be better

I've took a look at Reputation, and there are 4 players in the US High School who have a Reputation of 3000+

• Marc Baumgartner (age 19) - Mount St. Charles Mounties
• David Backes (age 16) - Breck School
• Zach Parise (age 15) - Breck School
• Jonathan Quick (Age 14) - Deerfield Academy

And here's a few more whose Reputation is 2700-3000.....

• Tom Gilbert (age 17) - Breck School
• James Wisniewski (age 16) - Belmont Hill School
• Dustin Byfuglien (age 15) - White Bear Lake
• Avery Kukulka (age 15) - Hermantown
• Cory Schneider (age 14) - Deerfield Academy

Are any of these other players getting released? In particular Quick? I'm thinking Baumgartner has reached the Upper Age, but the rest (including Backes/Parise) are all young enough they've seemingly no need to be released...

There are many players from many Leagues with Reputations similar to Backes/Parise, including Major Junior/European Junior Leagues (including USHL/NAHL players).....

Is the game coded so the USHL/NAHL are "different" than the WHL/OHL/QMJHL, so a player can play in the USHL/NAHL and still play College hockey?



What's a little strange is there are some really young players whose Reputation falls within the Parise/Backes range!

• Gabriel Landeskog (age 7, 82 CA)
• Filip Forsberg (age 5, 74 CA)
• Sam Bennett (age 4, 75 CA)
• Nathan MacKinnon (age 4, 88 CA)
• Dylan Larkin (age 3, 76 CA)
• Matthew Tkachuk (age 2, 73 CA)
• Maxime Comtois (age 1, 76 CA)

IMPORTANT - my understanding was players "underage" would NOT develop until they "became visible ingame" at age 14/16, but it appears they do!
Here's the starting CA from the database of those listed above

• Gabriel Landeskog - 76
• Filip Forsberg - 72
• Sam Bennett - 72
• Nathan MacKinnon - 84
• Dylan Larkin - 72
• Matthew Tkachuk - 72
• Maxime Comtois - 76

[CJ]

What's a little strange is there are some really young players whose Reputation falls within the Parise/Backes range!

• Gabriel Landeskog (age 7, 82 CA)
• Filip Forsberg (age 5, 74 CA)
• Sam Bennett (age 4, 75 CA)
• Nathan MacKinnon (age 4, 88 CA)
• Dylan Larkin (age 3, 76 CA)
• Matthew Tkachuk (age 2, 73 CA)
• Maxime Comtois (age 1, 76 CA)

IMPORTANT - my understanding was players "underage" would NOT develop until they "became visible ingame" at age 14/16, but it appears they do!
Here's the starting CA from the database of those listed above

• Gabriel Landeskog - 76
• Filip Forsberg - 72
• Sam Bennett - 72
• Nathan MacKinnon - 84
• Dylan Larkin - 72
• Matthew Tkachuk - 72
• Maxime Comtois - 76

OH man?!?

[nickflyers]

•Dylan Larkin (age 3, 76 CA)
•Matthew Tkachuk (age 2, 73 CA)
•Maxime Comtois (age 1, 76 CA)

Sorry to go off-topic. This makes me giggle a little. Both my boys are under 4 so picturing them being pretty good ice hockey players like Larkin/Tkachuk makes me laugh a bit

[Primis]

I hate to keep doing this guys, but... I keep finding them! (please don't hate me!)

MTL has Sergei Zholtok, and Frederiction has Sergejs Zoltoks. I realized this at the WC's when both were on Latvia. Same height and weight, but their birthdates are reversed.

[bruins72]

So my current save is in February of 2002. As you know Parise and Backes have no team.

Baumgartner is 20 years old and playing for the New York Apple Core.
Quick is still with Deerfield at 16 years old.
Tom Gilbert is 19 years. He stayed at Breck through the 99-00 season and then joined Boston University for the 00-01 season.
Wisniewski is 17 years old. He spent 98-00 at Belmont Hill. In 00-01 he played for St Jean of the QJAHL. And now in the 01-02 season he's been with Chicoutimi of the QMJHL.
Byfuglien is 16 years old. He spent 98-01 playing for White Bear Lake. In the 01-02 season he's playing for Lethbridge in the WHL.
There are actually 2 Avery Kukulkas. One is currently 17 years old and the other is 20 years old. The 20 year old is currently without a team. He played 98-01 with Try City of the NPHL. The younger one spent 98-00 with Hermantown. In 2000 he joined Kelowna of the WHL. He was traded in the 01-02 season to Red Deer.
Cory Schneider is currently 15 years old. From the 98 season through the present he has been with Deerfield.

I'm not sure what the whole deal is with how the game is handling things. The inner workings of things is really beyond me.

I can try to get you a 2001 save on Monday if you're still interested.

[nino33]

I can try to get you a 2001 save on Monday if you're still interested.

Sure/yes please!

I'm not sure what the whole deal is with how the game is handling things. The inner workings of things is really beyond me.

And we may not know anymore after my looking into things

But hopefully even if nothing "jumps out at me" or seems odd or seems like a pattern, at the least I'll be able to tell Riz what I did look for and what I found (the "eliminating possibilities" problem solving strategy is often the key to eventually understanding EHM HaHa or at least trying to!)

[CJ]

I hate to keep doing this guys, but... I keep finding them! (please don't hate me!)

MTL has Sergei Zholtok, and Frederiction has Sergejs Zoltoks. I realized this at the WC's when both were on Latvia. Same height and weight, but their birthdates are reversed.

Thanks!
No hating here! I'm just glad we get things corrected. That's what this thread is made for!

[bruins72]

A side note to the Parise and Backes thing... I'm in the 2002 draft right now and even though neither one was ranked for the draft by the ISS and both were teamless for the season, they were both chosen in the first round of the draft. I had the 12th pick and saw Vanek still unpicked (ranked 8th), so I didn't even get a chance to grab one of them with my next pick.

[Primis]

A side note to the Parise and Backes thing... I'm in the 2002 draft right now and even though neither one was ranked for the draft by the ISS and both were teamless for the season, they were both chosen in the first round of the draft. I had the 12th pick and saw Vanek still unpicked (ranked 8th), so I didn't even get a chance to grab one of them with my next pick.

I find that really interesting. I don't recall seeing cases of completely unranked guys going in the 1st round before (well, unless I'M the one doing the picking, then that stuff happens from time to time, though still not 1st round usually). It's even more curious when you consider they didn't play for the season.

I wish we better understood how scouts scout, and how players are evaluated by the AI (or maybe we do, and just I don't).

[bruins72]

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully this info can be presented to Riz in a way that might help the game. I also saw a young and talented Alex Tanguay sit unemployed all season long because the Avs would play that game where they'd offer him a contract and then back out when he agreed to it. I've seen this happen outside the 98DB so I am pretty sure its not a DB issue.

[nino33]

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully this info can be presented to Riz in a way that might help the game.

I'm going to try to

I also saw a young and talented Alex Tanguay sit unemployed all season long because the Avs would play that game where they'd offer him a contract and then back out when he agreed to it. I've seen this happen outside the 98DB so I am pretty sure its not a DB issue.

I wonder if Riz needs saved games to be able to look into this?

[Manimal]

Overall, I see very few players in the game go from the USHL into college. Most college recruitments come from High school.
Riz needs to look at career paths in the US

[bruins72]

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully this info can be presented to Riz in a way that might help the game.

I'm going to try to

I also saw a young and talented Alex Tanguay sit unemployed all season long because the Avs would play that game where they'd offer him a contract and then back out when he agreed to it. I've seen this happen outside the 98DB so I am pretty sure its not a DB issue.

I wonder if Riz needs saved games to be able to look into this?

If that's the case, I can share mine. I would have thought that he'd be aware of this issue by now. I think it's been happening since EHM 2007. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.

[nino33]

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully this info can be presented to Riz in a way that might help the game.

I'm going to try to

I also saw a young and talented Alex Tanguay sit unemployed all season long because the Avs would play that game where they'd offer him a contract and then back out when he agreed to it. I've seen this happen outside the 98DB so I am pretty sure its not a DB issue.

I wonder if Riz needs saved games to be able to look into this?

If that's the case, I can share mine. I would have thought that he'd be aware of this issue by now. I think it's been happening since EHM 2007. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.

He might be, but he's got a lot on his plate too

It seems a post in the SI Bugs Forum and a save game uploaded seems to get a response
I do what I can with data related issues, but some issues need a save to find what's happening/what's wrong in the code (I can provide data to support issues that are systemic, and it's easy for him to go in and immediately find the issue present...probably harder to reproduce a contract offer/withdrawal issue though)

[bruins72]

I'll have to wait for the issue to present itself again and keep a save for him. In my saves that I have, either it hasn't happened yet or happened a long time ago. I'll want to get one of exactly when it happens.

[Primis]

BOOM! There's two John Maddens in the file...

One has a birthdate of 5/4/1973, and the other has 5/4/1975. The 1975 one is the good one, the 1973 one is terrible. I believe both start the game/file in Albany.

[CJ]

I've fixed all errors and mistakes stated in this thread!

(More of a note to myself & Nino)

[connormcjesus]

I've fixed all errors and mistakes stated in this thread!

(More of a note to myself & Nino)

So is the roster on the original page updated yet? Cuz OneDrive says "last modified 6/29/2016 3:24 PM"

[nino33]

I've fixed all errors and mistakes stated in this thread!

(More of a note to myself & Nino)

So is the roster on the original page updated yet? Cuz OneDrive says "last modified 6/29/2016 3:24 PM"

No, and AFAIK they won't be for another month or so at best

[Bam_Margera]

A side note to the Parise and Backes thing... I'm in the 2002 draft right now and even though neither one was ranked for the draft by the ISS and both were teamless for the season, they were both chosen in the first round of the draft. I had the 12th pick and saw Vanek still unpicked (ranked 8th), so I didn't even get a chance to grab one of them with my next pick.

I've seen that happening in my TBL Rosters 8.1 save in 2018 or 2019. Can't remember which players though

[Asher413]

Not sure if it's a DB or EHM problem, but just had Phily in the AHL forfeit a game because of too few players. They have two under their contract, and only 10 from the Flyers. Two injuries did them in.

(in the 2001-02 season)

[nino33]

Not sure if it's a DB or EHM problem, but just had Phily in the AHL forfeit a game because of too few players. They have two under their contract, and only 10 from the Flyers. Two injuries did them in.

Wow! I've never heard of such a thing happening/I didn't know such a thing could happen! I thought "grey players" would have been used

There's over 26,000 players in the starting 98 DB (and a number of unplayable leagues are even fully populated!), so my first thought is it's not a database issue...


On the SI EHM Bugs Forum there's this recent report of lack of players on AHL teams https://community.sigames.com/topic/376 ... cpu-teams/ if you can it'd probably be helpful if you reported it there...

[SharksAttack]

San Jose has 2 Presidents with same name.

Vesa Toskala and Aki-Petteri Berg doesn't have NHL draft info and rights set.

Sharks are also missing Jonathan Cheechoo's rights. He signed with Preds as a free agent.