Official NHL Season 2016-2017 Thread

[Aladyyn]

Wouldn't mind getting another Tavares jersey in the rafters

[CJ]

Someone should rescue John Tavares from the trainwreck that is New York Islanders, they just re-signed Cal Clutterbuck to a $3.5M x 5 year contract, that's incredibly bad imo.

Hahahaa...

[philou21]

3.5 millions holy.....

[Peter_Doherty]

No surprise but Carey Price didn't get suspended, i think it's a horrible decision, punching a defenseless player like that while his D-man (the same guy who pushed him into Price) pretty much holds him down :s I think he definitely should have gotten a few games suspension. I mean, he went bananas and just unloaded on Palmieri.

[philou21]

Referees most of the time never punish players hitting the goalies or the ones that slide skate first into them. Price got hit earlier in the game and his teammates did nothing to protect their goalie. At some point you need to step up for yourself.

I didn't see the sequence though and you say Palmieri got pushed so it's different. From what I heard around here (and it's maybe only the poor medias doing drama) Palmieri slided skate first into him.

Anyway, the NHL let stuff way worse than that unpunished so no surprise there.

[Peter_Doherty]

Palmieri was cutting in and would have easily cleared Price but Petry was there to shove him in, but honestly i don't think it matters how Palmieri went into Price. Losing your temper like that and just going ham on a defenseless guy ( he was on his stomach with Petry pretty much holding him down) should always be a suspension imo, not saying a lot of games but a game or two or three.

[Aladyyn]

Completely agree with Peter here. No matter what the situation is, what Price did is unacceptable. Palmieri being basically innocent just makes it worse.

[nino33]

I've read many times about how goaltenders today are so much better than in the past, and I don't really believe that's true.....in addition to the fact that I don't think many of them could even play with the equipment of the past (they certainly couldn't play the slide around on their knees style of today), they're IMO unbelievably pampered compared to "the old days" - I've thought Price has been one of the worst too; multiple times I've seen him IMO purposely initiate contact while making a save (including outside the crease) and then appealing/complaining that he was interfered with...in the old days, there was essentially no such thing as goaltender interference (especially outside the crease)



Rant coming...

More and more hockey's becoming more like ringette than hockey; IMO, the more I watch, the more I think the problems of the hard plastic equipment (which is a problem, and should be addressed) and the "lack of respect" for opponents (which may or may not be a problem) are significantly overstated, and the biggest problem is players play as if they're playing ringette (like the recent Hall hit on Larsen) and expect to be protected as if they were playing kids minor hockey

On a play like the recent Hall hit, what comes to mind for me is maybe Larsen shouldn't be playing in the NHL (the fastest/most dangerous League in the world); I think the problem is there's not enough capable players to fill 30/31 NHL teams. They don't let just anyone drive F1 or NASCAR because of the danger, but they let players play in the NHL that simply "can't keep up" to the speed of the game (I'm talking mentally/decision making, not skating speed). They've created rules to artificially increase skating speed, and eliminated the interference...maybe such changes were a bad idea

My understanding with auto racing is there are "rules" regarding engines so speeds that are deemed "to dangerous" are avoided (and yet accidents still occur) and auto racing doesn't say we need to hugely reduce speeds to avoid the danger.....hockey always was a physical game, and it seems to me they're trying to hugely change that, and to a large extent already have (IMO it's like telling auto racers to stay below 100 mph)


If "player safety" is the absolute most important thing, why aren't all players wearing cages?
I thought they were professional athletes, and part of there reason they're paid millions and the sport is popular is the danger/risk involved

Final point, and key to my views...IMO in "the old days" players protected themselves more, and were more aware of the dangers, and didn't expect "the rules" to protect them, and rarely put themselves in positions to get injured the way modern players do (many, many times per game); I believe the "lack of respect" connects more to players for themselves (and expecting the game to be more like ringette than hockey), and not so much with others


In recent years I've read more on hockey sites, and now know that I'm not at all alone when I say many NHL games are so boring it's not worth watching (and years of plummeting TV ratings in Canada show this too); it's supposed to be "entertaining" and part of that entertainment used to be the physical contact that's almost been completely taken out of the game (IMO, and I know I'm not alone, the Flyers forechecking style of the 70s and 80s was WAY more entertaining than almost any modern hockey...and they had the best road attendance, they were entertaining!) - I keep trying to love hockey like I used to, but the vast majority of modern games are just too boring


OK...end of rant

[Aladyyn]

We're back to the clutch and grab era, but this time physical play is not nearly as accepted as it used to be. That's why hockey is more boring now imo. I personally have trouble watching games I'm not invested in emotionally too.

[nino33]

We're back to the clutch and grab era

I don't believe this myself (and a lot of the "clutch and grab" was to push/hit a player into the boards, now taken out of the game and thus what hitting there is is more dangerous, especially with the way players turn their back on opponents when near the boards...you used to grab them as part of pushing/pasting them into the boards)

this time physical play is not nearly as accepted as it used to be

I agree; IMO if NHL players want more European/KHL style hockey they better be prepared to accept similar salaries and interest, because the TV ratings are not good and haven't been for years, and Canada (a disproportionate amount of NHL income) is losing interest, and the US interest is limited - hockey is not entertaining like it used to be to many former big fans of the game

I personally have trouble watching games I'm not invested in emotionally too.

I think this is becoming the case for more and more people, because the game itself is boring (forechecking like I grew up with was exciting hockey, and could occur on virtually every rush...now with the ringette style most of the time top players try things that don't work and nothing much of anything happens & because there's to many teams the majority of players play a chip it in/out of the glass style - when I started watching hockey glass on the side boards was about 4 feet above the boards and there was no chip it in/out off the glass hockey!)


My opinions...as the saying goes "your mileage may very"



I've gotta get some stuff done I'm working on, I better get back to EHM editing!

[Aladyyn]

We're back to the clutch and grab era

I don't believe this myself (and a lot of the "clutch and grab" was to push/hit a player into the boards, now taken out of the game and thus what hitting there is is more dangerous, especially with the way players turn their back on opponents when near the boards...you used to grab them as part of pushing/pasting them into the boards)

this time physical play is not nearly as accepted as it used to be

I agree; IMO if NHL players want more European/KHL style hockey they better be prepared to accept similar salaries and interest, because the TV ratings are not good and haven't been for years, and Canada (a disproportionate amount of NHL income) is losing interest, and the US interest is limited - hockey is not entertaining like it used to be to many former big fans of the game

I personally have trouble watching games I'm not invested in emotionally too.

I think this is becoming the case for more and more people, because the game itself is boring (forechecking like I grew up with was exciting hockey, and could occur on virtually every rush...now with the ringette style most of the time top players try things that don't work and nothing much of anything happens & because there's to many teams the majority of players play a chip it in/out of the glass style - when I started watching hockey glass on the side boards was about 4 feet above the boards and there was no chip it in/out off the glass hockey!)


My opinions...as the saying goes "your mileage may very"



I've gotta get some stuff done I'm working on, I better get back to EHM editing!

My biggest problem is how little interference is called these days. It really holds the talented players back.

[CJ]

darn! If I wouldn't be that drunk now.I'd put a little discussion/response here.

[Aladyyn]

I've been all about the "refs have been trash towards everyone" this season but these past few Sabres games are starting to convince me that they are really out to get us.

[nino33]

My biggest problem is how little interference is called these days. It really holds the talented players back.

I think there's less interference than ever before in the history of the game
LOTS more players can be talented when there's less contact
The KHL shows this, where guys who aren't top 6 forwards in the NHL can be top scorers in the KHL

I used to watch the Oilers practice (at WEM) in the glory days of the 80s and even guys like Semenko could make "pretty plays" when there was no checking and players weren't playing at game speed; I remember watching Eddie Johnstone hitting (from 30-40+ feet out) quarters taped/hanging from the crossbar at the Enderby hockey school in the late 70s (and Red Wings GM Ken Holland was the goalie instructor then!) - I think guys nowadays have convinced people they're better than they are because occasionally they can make the pretty play in a game

I think a lot of guys just aren't actually as good as people (especially younger fans) think...the gap between the players like Crosby and Carlson and Ovechkin and McDavid and others (players who are able to still perform despite the alleged interference/clutching and grabbing are WAY better than that next tier that can't consistently do it.....like in music, some bands can write many hits over many years, and some can only write one or two - doesn't mean the hits aren't equal or close to it, but as musicians/performers/songwriters they're not the same and doing it way less than those at the top doesn't mean you're close to as good (just like many hockey players are way overrated because of what they occasionally can do compared to the top players who regularly do it)

Modern athletes are hyped more than ever, the media is essentially "in bed with" the players/NHL making the claims that the players are so good & in reality the talent pool is as or more diluted than ever (but rules and equipment, like the high glass that facilitates the chip it in/out style, covers this up more....maybe it's time to stop blaming the coaches so much and realize many players couldn't actually play hockey at the NHL level if more was expected of them)

I've been all about the "refs have been trash towards everyone" this season but these past few Sabres games are starting to convince me that they are really out to get us.

Refs have been blamed by fans since the beginning of hockey; the game today is less physical with less interference than ever before



Again, my opinions and "your mileage may vary"

[Aladyyn]

Tonight was the first time I've seen refs not call a double minor when a player got cut on a high stick. I've also seen a player penalized because an opposing player skated into him.

I don't even know what constitutes a penalty in this league anymore.

[Peter_Doherty]

nino - Agree very much that goalies are pampered, feels like they think they're entitled and can do whatever they want. Also don't think they're 'better' not, it's just different.

I had no problem with the Hall on Larsen hit, most people didn't. They issue there is what happened after where people decided to fight right next to a guy that's unconscious which led to people kicking him in the head and almost stepping on his throat, that was incredibly reckless and dangerous.

[Alessandro]

But the most important thing is - Nino, the Lindros is ringette?

[Alessandro]

BTW Nino, you said you like soccer - go and see some team Brazil from the 70s or so, or the Dutch national team, nowadays Barcelona can't even tie the boots to such players... guess it's kind of the same stuff although I do love hockey and like the modern one better if u just focus on the games.

[Primis]

Tonight was the first time I've seen refs not call a double minor when a player got cut on a high stick.

Literally just a couple games ago Dylan Larkin got cut by a high stick and they called a single minor even though there was a little blood. I thought the same thing at the time, that it's been a while since I saw that happen. I'm wondering then if the league quietly came down on something with that, that the blood needs to be significant or something.

[nino33]

BTW Nino, you said you like soccer - go and see some team Brazil from the 70s or so, or the Dutch national team, nowadays Barcelona can't even tie the boots to such players... guess it's kind of the same stuff although I do love hockey and like the modern one better if u just focus on the games.

I have most definitely watched Brazil and the Dutch from the 70s I've watched Barcelona too, and Messi's pretty impressive
Thanks to YouTube my soccer watching goes back to the late 1950s

Soccer back then I think was more physical, with less "simulation" (diving) & the "beauty of the game" really did seem more important then...just winning wasn't good enough, it was how you won (and players/teams, including those less skilled, were proud of who they were and more than willing to prove it rather than expecting praise just for existing and expecting to be treated like royalty)


Players in pro sports, for me, are no longer "relatable" as people (and therefore I care much less)


IMO the importance of "the game itself" has been lost in modern pro sports due to the high salaries players make; players now are "entitled" and think they're special and truly personally deserving of the accolades/money/star treatment (and demanding it) rather than feeling fortunate/blessed

IMO what would be great in hockey is if every year was "fresh" and ALL players get only the minimum salary, and then everything else is bonuses based on team/individual performance (I could accept that some players make 10 million or more, but I don't think the majority of NHLers deserve more than a million dollars a season; I think the money ruins/spoils them and the game as a result)

[nino33]

Tonight was the first time I've seen refs not call a double minor when a player got cut on a high stick.

Literally just a couple games ago Dylan Larkin got cut by a high stick and they called a single minor even though there was a little blood. I thought the same thing at the time, that it's been a while since I saw that happen. I'm wondering then if the league quietly came down on something with that, that the blood needs to be significant or something.

What came to mind for me immediately was Gretzky's high stick on Gilmour in the 1993 playoffs (Gilmour got 8 stitches); instead of a 5 minute penalty and Gretzky being tossed from the game in OT Kerry Fraser made no call, and Gretzky scored the winner moments later http://www2.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?F ... &id=581744

[A9L3E]

IMO what would be great in hockey is if every year was "fresh" and ALL players get only the minimum salary, and then everything else is bonuses based on team/individual performance (I could accept that some players make 10 million or more, but I don't think the majority of NHLers deserve more than a million dollars a season; I think the money ruins/spoils them and the game as a result)

This would get exploited. Players would be given bonuses for tying their skate laces.

[nino33]

I had no problem with the Hall on Larsen hit, most people didn't. They issue there is what happened after where people decided to fight right next to a guy that's unconscious which led to people kicking him in the head and almost stepping on his throat, that was incredibly reckless and dangerous.

First, I'll say I hope Larsen's OK and certainly don't wish upon anyone serious injury

Having said that, what we saw was IMO a direct result of "toughness" in modern hockey being scrums, pushing/shoving like a Black Friday sale and "chirping" (the law of unforeseen consequences in action regarding taking the enforcer role out; you can't "take a number" like you used to, players are rarely if ever "held accountable" like they used to be); many/most players today "act tough" nowadays, but they're not, and they're never called on their act because of the rules (never used to be that way)

Bottom line though really is (IMO) Larsen made a play that few kids make at ten years old, as if he was playing noncontact ringette where he's not allowed to be hit and "puckhandling" trumps all (it's like it never occurred to him that such a play could result in such a hit...completely oblivious to the way hockey's been played for generations - hockey sense/awareness Is more than just knowing which teammates to pass to! or it used to be)


P.S. Having watched Johnny Gaudreau a few times to now, I think it's just a matter of time before someone hits him like Stevens hit Lindros...he to often barely slips by attempts at hitting him in the open ice with his "speed and offensive skill" and it won't surprise me at all that when he doesn't slip by successfully he's going to get hurt (while players may not hit like Stevens anymore, Gaudreau's so small it's not going to take a Stevens hit to do significant damage)



EDITED - corrected typos

[nino33]

IMO what would be great in hockey is if every year was "fresh" and ALL players get only the minimum salary, and then everything else is bonuses based on team/individual performance (I could accept that some players make 10 million or more, but I don't think the majority of NHLers deserve more than a million dollars a season; I think the money ruins/spoils them and the game as a result)

This would get exploited. Players would be given bonuses for tying their skate laces.

I don't understand...outside of 3-4 year olds I've never heard of "tying your skates" as "performance"

In the 1970s winning the Cup would add around 50% of the average player's salary to their income!
And even in the 80s it was a significant amount of money...

Doesn't really matter though, as it's never going to happen [players are all about themselves and maximizing their income in the short term, and care less about "the game" than anyone involved in hockey IMO - one example of many is goaltender equipment...it's been ridiculous for decades but players continuously agree to not fixing the issue; there are many other issues that the NHLPA doesn't try to fix, and only considers them if they can "get something" out of it (more money/power)...the game lasts, players come and players go, but now they think they're royalty]

As I've said before, my opinions, "your mileage may vary"

[Alessandro]

BTW Nino, you said you like soccer - go and see some team Brazil from the 70s or so, or the Dutch national team, nowadays Barcelona can't even tie the boots to such players... guess it's kind of the same stuff although I do love hockey and like the modern one better if u just focus on the games.

I have most definitely watched Brazil and the Dutch from the 70s I've watched Barcelona too, and Messi's pretty impressive
Thanks to YouTube my soccer watching goes back to the late 1950s

Soccer back then I think was more physical, with less "simulation" (diving) & the "beauty of the game" really did seem more important then...just winning wasn't good enough, it was how you won (and players/teams, including those less skilled, were proud of who they were and more than willing to prove it rather than expecting praise just for existing and expecting to be treated like royalty)


Players in pro sports, for me, are no longer "relatable" as people (and therefore I care much less)


IMO the importance of "the game itself" has been lost in modern pro sports due to the high salaries players make; players now are "entitled" and think they're special and truly personally deserving of the accolades/money/star treatment (and demanding it) rather than feeling fortunate/blessed

IMO what would be great in hockey is if every year was "fresh" and ALL players get only the minimum salary, and then everything else is bonuses based on team/individual performance (I could accept that some players make 10 million or more, but I don't think the majority of NHLers deserve more than a million dollars a season; I think the money ruins/spoils them and the game as a result)

I agree, but this is nowaday's world. Hardly something we can change