Referies... This year is naff!

[Alex the Tall]

What the hell is happening whit the referies this year... The habs just lost 3-2 in shotout, but we should win 2-1. On the first goal of the Buffalo side, they were 5 players on the ice when they were suppose to be 4, plus their was at least 2 penalty that could have been call by the referies on the play...

This year is crazy, referies are making the games and i hate that. Sometimes a team win because of the ref and other times we lose... They cannot come back like last year, last year was good darn it!

[B. Stinson]

I haven't like the NHL ref'ing since... ever.

They play way too much of a role in the games, and they all go into games with different definitions of each rule.

Bad rules by the NHL doesn't help either. Example: The 2:00 delay of game penalty for hitting the puck over the glass. It takes a special kind of person(s) to think of a rule like that.

[Minstrel]

There have been some brutal games this year I have to admit... and really we've just changed one set of problems for another Before it used to be this insane "even out" system where you got to the third knowing that one team was "owed calls". They'd also call things to completely different standards int he first and thrid which I always though was BS and really is part of the lingering stench of the subjective nature of calls... now at least things are called for a full duration of a game. Overall? I say I prefer the general standard of calls in the "new NHL" better than previous.

However, part of this has to be put on the players as well. Some simply won't wake up to not being able to "hold up" players anymore. It happens more late in games when players tire and then that naturally is when calls are more likely to swing a game. All of the diving doesn't help refs make the right calls either as the pace of the game is terribly fast. You have to keep in mind they are on the ice and seeing things in real time. It's easy to be overly critical when we can slow down every call from four different camera angles and determine if we think it should have been called or not.

So, like everything, it's never as cut and dry as it seems. Recently however there have been some brutal games called by the officials, no doubt, but it's not an easy job and in the general overall I think they do it pretty well.

[Kekkonen]

NHL refs aren't perfect, but I'd trade the best in our league for the worst of yours in a heartbeat. And the really sad thing is this: when the World Championships roll around in the spring, whichever zebras the Finnish hockey powers send there, he'll be clearly above average.

[Shadd666]

All of the diving doesn't help refs make the right calls either as the pace of the game is terribly fast. You have to keep in mind they are on the ice and seeing things in real time. It's easy to be overly critical when we can slow down every call from four different camera angles and determine if we think it should have been called or not.

I think you pointed out the reality on this one

And well, refs are humans, so they do mistakes! Players aren't 100% of their capacity at every game, and it's the same thing with refs, coaches, or the guy that made the pizza you're eating...

So yes, it's annoying when refs don't do a good job, but at least keep one thing in mind: no ref = no game!

[Kekkonen]

True, and whatever else anyone says about refs, you've got to have at least a little sympathy for a guy doing a job where the mark of a great performance is that nobody remembers you were there.

[Thundercleese]

I don't think we need to give these guys too much sympathy. I think the 'even-up' mentality is still lurking, if not prevalent, and the calls that are being made are basically because the ref decides that someone, somewhere is BOUND to take a penalty soon. When a team gets scrambling in their own zone, the tiniest infraction goes for two minutes because the refs expect it to happen, whether or not the call is justified.

The thing that REALLY gets me about the officiating lately (and I'm sure I've posted this somewhere else on the forum) is that guys are getting called when they don't impede the other player at all. If a guy taps the guy with the puck in the midsection with his stick, it's a hook, whether or not the puck-carrier's progress is slowed. Seems to me that the point of the new rules (well, calling the rules that are in place) is to prevent players from slowing the game down and keeping other players from getting chances because they can't use their speed or skill to navigate the ice. If nobody's being slowed can it really be called a penalty?

I also think that standards change from game to game, period to period, just like they did before. 1st period, you breathe on a guy, it's a call. Third period, not so much. Or vice versa, depending on who's behind and by how much. You can't expect the players to adjust their games if they don't know what's going to be called from one shift to the next, let alone from one game to the next. This is all on the refs.

[batdad]

[old man rant again] Bah...complaining about referees is the third oldest profession. Behind prostitution and refereeing. A team that plays well never gets beat by refereeing, and a team that plays naff never gets beat because of refereeing. Never. Coaches and players will always tell you that once they have calmed down from the emotion of the game and look back rationally. Sometimes, teams have to play harder because luck or calls are going against em, but you know what...just excuses.
Centuries old whining about refs being imperfect is what made the stupidity of Video Replay happen, where it takes 20 minutes to phone Toronto to get some guy watching a TV Screen, eating donuts to make a call, that is not necessarily the right call either. [/old man rant]

[Alex the Tall]

[old man rant again] Bah...complaining about referees is the third oldest profession. Behind prostitution and refereeing. A team that plays well never gets beat by refereeing, and a team that plays naff never gets beat because of refereeing. Never. Coaches and players will always tell you that once they have calmed down from the emotion of the game and look back rationally. Sometimes, teams have to play harder because luck or calls are going against em, but you know what...just excuses.
Centuries old whining about refs being imperfect is what made the stupidity of Video Replay happen, where it takes 20 minutes to phone Toronto to get some guy watching a TV Screen, eating donuts to make a call, that is not necessarily the right call either. [/old man rant]

Wait, I think i aint the only guy who listened to the habs game yesterday... But when there's to much players on the ice the ref are supose to call the penalty... I played hockey many years, and i always hated to put a lost on the shoulders of a ref. But this year in the NHL it's ugly as hell...

[batdad]

Know what? Refs miss too many men on the ice all the time. They miss offsides, they miss all kinds of stuff, and they call stuff that should not be called. Part of being human. Fact remains that if before or following the referee mistake or so-called blown call, a team played a little harder, or a little better...the referee call or non-call would not be a big deal. Kill the penalty, score a goal after, before or during the other 58 minutes of the game. Stop grabbing guys with your hands, stop hitting to the head. Play hockey, and play smarter and harder, and a missed offside or too many men call is no big deal. Referees do not decide games NO MATTER WHAT. Players and player mistakes, lack of effort do.

And it is also funny to hear a Habs fan worry about referee calls going against them. I guess there is a first time for everything. Were they playing the Rangers? The smiley indicates a joke (underline joke), not smack down about the fact that throughout history many players, coaches, fans, media have indicated that the Habs have received many beneficial calls from officials, in spite of what Mr. Richard had to say, God rest his soul.)

[Minstrel]

Ya know, if I had a dollar for every time that Brian Sutter claimed that they "just didn't get the bounces" which is the other side of the coin to the same issue you're talkin about batdad; you make your own breaks and funny how teams that give it 100% and really know what it means to play as a team really do make their own breaks and yes, they also get the calls.

So I can't agree with ya more, 60 minutes is a lonnnngggg time and if you get all knocked off your game because of an "undeserved" two minutes? Well, and that moping around the ice bemoaning that you never get the breaks... thinking about what you want to say to the ref about how he blew the call... well there's an infinitiely higher chance of making that a self-fullfilling prophecy that the "bad calls" did cause you to the lose the game.

Good teams, winning teams say "darn, two minutes we don't deserve... well, it'll come back around lets go out there and kill this thing" and you don't hear them making excuses later.

[Alex the Tall]

The habs have a good team this year and it seems that the penalty doesn't affect us a lot. We're the team whit almost the most minutes of penalty and second in penalty kill. I am just saying that this year, ref seem to come back like in the "old" NHL.

I'm just asking them to come back like last year.

[Thundercleese]

I agree with Batdad that teams create their own fortunes but it's hard to deny that the refs have a direct impact on the game. The thing that bugs me about the calls now is that it's harder for teams to put the effort in when they don't know what the results of that effort will be. What in one game is good defensive positioning becomes holding in another. Still, overall I think you're right, batdad. Remember the 2002 women's gold medal game? The American referee called 13 RIDICULOUS penalties on Canada (well, maybe not ALL of them were ridiculous...) in a clear show of partisanship. Canada, meanwhile, gained confidence and momentum every time they killed a penalty and ended up winning a game that many thought they would lose. It works both ways, but it still irks me that a) there's no consistency and b) plays that really shouldn't be penalties are being called penalties when it's clear, in real time, that the player's progress has not been impeded.

[Habslife]

I thought the ref'ing last year was good, but right now it's horrible. I hate when they don't call pens when theres 3mins left in the game...thats ridiculous.(like when Ryder was hit behind the knee by Stuart and he scored 10secs later!!! ). There's no one looking at the refs job anymore, you know a couple years ago, in every game there was a supervisr looking at the refs job, now they're in their office in Toronto looking at the game on TV. They should do something about guys like Mcmageough(whatever) and Fraser(for the Nordiques fans!). Calling a penalty for tripping on 1 guy then for diving on the guy, the one that got tripped, is a Lindros*** joke.

[Shadd666]

I don't think that the refs are the real problem... According to me, the problem comes from rules that are not clear enough and may be interpretated in too many ways, and from the formation of the refs (don't know how it's done in NHL, but here in France there are some room for improvement).

Just give clearer rules and a better formation to the ref, maybe add someone to supervise their job and tell them what mistakes they did and how to not re-do those, and you'll seriously decrease the number of complaints against the refs.

Just my thoughts, though...

[batdad]

When people can give me clear examples of refereeing ripping off a team that they absolutely hate and detest, and honestly make that point, I will believe that refereeing is poor. Funny how it never, ever happens.

habslife-Have you ever watched a Habs game where you felt the refereeing was ripping off the opponent to the benefit of the Habs? Just curious. Several times in my life, including the Canucks last win vs CarolinaI felt the reffing was helping Vancouver and shafting Carolina. Just saying, people get widdled when they perceive a ref to be screwing there team, yet they never notice when it appears the reffing is in their teams favor.
A person who can rabidly support a team, and still recognize that the other team does things really well to beat them, and that realizes reffing shafts the other team as well, is a REAL HOCKEY FAN. Others, well sorry but they are not. They are just fans of their team, as long as it wins.

My final point on this subject is: When both coaches, and both sets of fans, and both teams players pain about reffing, then the ref has clearly been at his best.

[Habslife]

Batdad:Yes. A game against the Nordiques when Fraser refused a clear goal for Nordiques(It's a legendary goal in here!)that was a total Kasparaitis, you know, I prefer losing then winning because of the refs. A more recent exemple: Habs last win against the Wild, Habs played like rookies but they still won. Don't worry, I can see when a ref is stealing a match, even when it's for the Habs. Now when i say refs are horrible, I'm not talking about all of 'em, but there's a lot of them out here that shouldnt be there anymore, thats all.

[Joe]

You should see the Refs in the UHL, they are pathetic.

[Shadd666]

Hey guys, you want better referies? You think they don't do their job well? So stop complaining and do your ref formation! And then other guys will tell that you are bad refs, etc etc etc.

Stupid.