Picking a goalie

The Senator · Post by **The Senator** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:14 pm

I asked this question over at the SI forum so I thought I would ask it here also.When picking a goalie and everything else is equal,what would you place greater value on,reflexes-positioning or anticaption.Explain why.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:20 pm

I've never really had to think about this as far as EHM goes, but I guess I would have to choose positioning. I think thats the basis for all goalies is good positioning. If they are out of position, or don't have good positioning, its easier to score.

Post by **Minstrel** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:25 pm

Well, if starting via a fantasy draft for example I also look at contracts and age which is why I'd select Luongo over Brodeur for example.

In your question though if their glove and blocker attributes were equal as were their staminas then I'd go for positioning rather than anticipation. Goalies that anticipate a lot can get burned by committing too early and guessing where the play is going instead of reacting to where the play goes. A goalie that is always is great position can cover for a lot of mistakes even just by being in the right place. So, if you combine positioning with reflexes (ability to make quick changes) I'd find that more valuable than someone who anticipates well.

Post by **Shadd666** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:48 pm

Isn't anticipation allows players to "feel" how the play is going to be? If so, a goalie with bad anticipation won't be able to position himself well in time, no matter how good he is in positionning...

I don't think there's one attribute to look more than the others. Every kind of players need a certain set of attributes to perform well.

For goalies, i'd say that stamina, strength, anticipation, determination, teamwork, work rate, glove, blocker, positionning, and reflexes are the important ones. By the way, determination, teamwork and work rate are important for all my players usually.

Forsberg · Post by **Forsberg** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:51 pm

Minstrel wrote:Well, if starting via a fantasy draft for example I also look at contracts and age which is why I'd select Luongo over Brodeur for example.

Acutally Marty is cheaper and signed longer, at 5,2 mill he is a steal untill the very last season of his contract which is 12/13, and by then I just waived him and he was claimed, well at least thats what happened the 2 times I have played that long

.
But the original question is a good one, not sure which is more important but inclined to agree with Joe and Minstrel about positioning. But think Hasek real life, and reflex doesnt seem so bad a choice after all

(suspect Minstrel might have a different view on that though hehe).

Post by **Minstrel** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:54 pm

Forsberg wrote:
Minstrel wrote:Well, if starting via a fantasy draft for example I also look at contracts and age which is why I'd select Luongo over Brodeur for example.
Acutally Marty is cheaper and signed longer, at 5,2 mill he is a steal untill the very last season of his contract which is 12/13, and by then I just waived him and he was claimed, well at least thats what happened the 2 times I have played that long .
But the original question is a good one, not sure which is more important but inclined to agree with Joe and Minstrel about positioning. But think Hasek real life, and reflex doesnt seem so bad a choice after all (suspect Minstrel might have a different view on that though hehe).

Notice I said contracts AND age, so while you are correct in the contract side that was only half of my consideration.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:57 pm

Bah...take Cloutier and go all offense...Outshoot the other team 96-4 and win 5 to 4. No problem.

Post by **Shadd666** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:30 am

batdad wrote:Bah...take Cloutier and go all offense...Outshoot the other team 96-4 and win 5 to 4. No problem.

Loooooooooool!!!!!!!!!!!

If you conceed 4 goals on 4 shots against, what's the use of having Cloutier or any other goalie? No goalie, 2 offensive D-men, 4 offensive forwards, and here we go!

Show must go on!

Post by **batdad** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:35 am

Good point. Save on the cap and play with 6 attackers, like my beer-league team did 10 times 2 years ago. We actually won 2 of those games.

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:40 am

Careful with the jokes, guys. Gary Bettman may be watching, don't give him any ideas.

Kekkonen · Post by **Kekkonen** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:22 pm

I have a fairly radical novelty strategy which I use in those rare occasions when a quick look at attribute ratings doesn't make it immediately clear which one should be starting:

I go with the guy who stops pucks better in games.

Do what real coaches do. Give both guys a chance and see which one plays better.

Post by **Shadd666** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:39 pm

I always do that, no matter what the attributes are.

You're told to be our best goalie? Prove it!

Post by **Minstrel** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:25 pm

Shadd666 wrote:You're told to be our best goalie? Prove it!

Yeah, this is how in my Columbus game Niity got himself traded and Bryzgalov beat out Toskala as the starter (and went on to win the Vezina actually!).

Post by **Shadd666** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:56 pm

In fact i do that for all my players, not only goalies.

You're good on the ice? You play.
You're average on the ice? You're a backup.
You suck on the ice? Get ready to buy a plane ticket for an other city.

Sometimes, maybe it's just me who is unable to get the best from a player... But even in this case, i have no use of keeping him with the team if i can't get the best of him! And usually i got the best from the guy i traded for, so the team gets better

Post by **Minstrel** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:37 am

True, but you also do have to have patience though. I've had players start terribly with a team for 10-12 games and then get it together and play very well, and that's without any big role change or new linemates etc. Those are all things you can try too, back to the chemistry topic.

Back on topic though it's uncanny sometimes how well EHM reflects real team stuggles, so many teams are held back by inconsistent goaltenders and they can frustrate the hell out of you in EHM too. There is aslo this wierd "sense" you can get from watching games, that teams just play better overall with one guy in the net or the other. Like they play harder because they believe in the guy in net, and if he lets up a few they storm back to even it up. Sometimes with certain goalies the team around him plays that "Oh great, he's let up two early we might as well forget trying to win this one" style too often. That has bought several of my goalies tickets out of town

Post by **Shadd666** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:22 am

Minstrel wrote:True, but you also do have to have patience though. I've had players start terribly with a team for 10-12 games and then get it together and play very well, and that's without any big role change or new linemates etc. Those are all things you can try too, back to the chemistry topic.

True

That's why i generally give them several chances, try different things, always give them time to adapt to any new modification, etc. Usually, i give my players between 2 to 4 monthes to prove that they can fit with the team. So they have to hurry up when we're getting closer of the deadline

And yep, the way EHM reflects the goalies and their "influence" on the team is just incredible as it sounds real! I even have a team with 2 decent goalies. One was playing well the home games, and the other one was doing well on away games

But if the "home" goalie had to play away, he let a minimum of 6 goals. Same thing for the "away" goalie at home.