IIHF Announce Victoria cup(NHL v Europe)

Post by **Calv** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:25 am

KHODYNKA—May 8, 2007
History was made today when the IIHF announced the first-ever tournament on European soil featuring club teams from the National Hockey League and champions from the European leagues. The Victoria Cup will be competed for on an annual basis beginning September 2008. It will be a three-team competition, two teams from Europe and one from the NHL. The series is the first ever initiative to pit the top teams from North America versus the top teams from Europe.

Taken from here: http://live82.ihwc.net/english/article/ ... artId=2646

Could be an interesting mini tournament I guess, what do you guys think?

Kekkonen · Post by **Kekkonen** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:44 am

Hard to say. For some reason, international club competitions in hockey just don't do it for me. The European Cup they used to have was just a huge drag for teams that already had to fit too many games into their schedule.

Plus, there's the issue of a huge financial discrepancy between, say, NHL teams and Finnish Elite League teams. I think the Finnish team with the highest payroll could afford something like half a season of Roberto Luongo.

Post by **Tasku** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:27 pm

Money isn't all that counts. If I remember correctly, a couple of years ago Jokerit of Helsinki beat Vancouver in an exhibition game, where Vancouver was playing a Swedish and a Finnish team. It was quite big numbers - maybe 6-2 or 6-3. Can't be sure.

As for this tournament, it seems a little bit too small to catch much of attention. Only three teams. And how are they going to determine the two "best teams" of Europe, if there is -well- only two teams, and there are like a zillion different leagues in the continent, many with equally good top teams in them.

I would be quite interested to follow this type of tournament, if they'd actually make something of it, not just a short exhibitionary tournament, where the teams participating have no reason to put in their best effort. I might be dreaming, but something like in the lines of the UEFA Cup of football would be worth watching if such a tournament would be adapted into hockey.

Kekkonen · Post by **Kekkonen** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:50 pm

Tasku wrote:Money isn't all that counts. If I remember correctly, a couple of years ago Jokerit of Helsinki beat Vancouver in an exhibition game, where Vancouver was playing a Swedish and a Finnish team.

The key word here is 'exhibition'. How many of the guys that took the ice were on the Canucks roster on opening day?

Post by **Tasku** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:38 pm

Kekkonen wrote:The key word here is 'exhibition'. How many of the guys that took the ice were on the Canucks roster on opening day?

Who knows. But still, most NHL:ers, as long as they're in the first team and not in the AHL team get payed about $ 500 000 per year (if we can trust EHM on this), and the average SM-Liiga team could afford three or four such players after which they'd have to look for volunteers.

My point was: simply by comparing team budgets you cannot compare quality of the players.

Post by **Tasku** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:23 pm

Just to clarify my last post: The point I was trying to make, is not that Jokerit, or any other SM-Liiga team would be "better" or even close to "as good" as the NHL teams, my point was only that a ten times bigger budget doesn't mean the team is ten times more skillful...

Although it helps...

Kekkonen · Post by **Kekkonen** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:09 pm

Sure, it's not a direct correlation. But generally, there's a reason why some guys make $5 million a season while some get paid 50,000 Euros. The former isn't 100 times better than the latter, but 99 times out of 100 he *is* a heck of a lot better.

Somewhat of an off-topic remark: my favorite team TPS Turku is in dire financial straits right now. A couple of friends and I got thinking what would happen if one of us suddenly got all of Roman Abramovich's money, and we could spend some serious money on improving the team. No, not the way Mr. Harkimo (a Finnish 'sports mogul', a rich man compared to me but a pauper next to Abramovich) did, by topping everyone else's player budget by 50%. We'd be talking about a 500% increase, with the proviso that there's more where that came from if the team really needs the money to sign a star-quality player. I sure would love to find out...

Post by **Tasku** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:29 pm

Kekkonen wrote:Sure, it's not a direct correlation. But generally, there's a reason why some guys make $5 million a season while some get paid 50,000 Euros. The former isn't 100 times better than the latter, but 99 times out of 100 he *is* a heck of a lot better.

I'm not arguing you there...

In ice hockey the difference between a good team and a a little bit better team is thin, but the difference shows in final score. I guess if you would make comparison with the World Championships, you could say SM-Liiga team would be Switzerland or Germany, while NHL teams are Canada, USA, Finland, Czech Rep, Sweden (etc), who are not million times better, but they do the little things, that result in wins, goals, saves at the right moment a bit better than the other, but sometimes they can be surprised by the underdog...

Post by **Tasku** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:55 pm

Ehm... (not the game) don't mean to be splitting hairs here, but you just compared a 50 000 euro and a five million dollar per year contract. That's like comparing regular in SM-Liiga to a star player in the NHL. Ofcourse the latter is significantly better. Star players in SM-Liiga make 250 000 - 350 000 euros...

(If this seems trivial, I'm sorry, I'm a bit drunk at the moment - not responsible for my own actions)

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:36 pm

The NHL team involved in this will:

1. Not be the same team that won the Cup the season prior. To many off season changes. Obviously.

2. Treat the tournament as an exhibition tournament for now. They will play in each of their games "some" of their players, but other than making sure that the team is good enough to compete, they are not going to put their top stars on the ice all the time to make sure the games are blowouts. In other words, it will not be treated by NHL teams to be as important as an NHL regular season game, even one in October.

3. Some will say the NHL players will not want to be embarassed and lose. You are right, but they will not care that much...For the first year or two anyway.

Post by **Tasku** » Thu May 10, 2007 12:46 am

I think the star players will most likely be on the ice, as long as they're fit, because the point of it is to give the European audience a chance to see them - atleast that's how it has been in the past, when such exhibition games have been arranged. It's a whole completely other thing if the NHL team will play with full headlights on or not. Most likely they won't, to avoid injuries.

Post by **Minstrel** » Thu May 10, 2007 10:48 am

Tasku wrote:(If this seems trivial, I'm sorry, I'm a bit drunk at the moment - not responsible for my own actions)

And people wonder why using 'tasku' as an emoticon gives you the drinking smiley

Good to have you back

Now, before I have to ban myself for off-topic posting (since using 'minty' as an emoticon gives you the bad cop smiley lol), this sounds interesting and maybe if it runs smoothly it will give them something to build on. I think however the problem is that I'm not sure about how many elite players would want to risk themselves in an extra number of exhibition games... it's different when they can play for a medal (in the worlds or Olympics etc.) and represent their countries but I wonder what the interest would be for them to go into this representing their NHL teams only

Post by **Tasku** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:32 pm

Thanks Minty. It's good to be back!

I think however the problem is that I'm not sure about how many elite players would want to risk themselves in an extra number of exhibition games... it's different when they can play for a medal (in the worlds or Olympics etc.) and represent their countries but I wonder what the interest would be for them to go into this representing their NHL teams only

Goes with the paycheck I guess? The team says "you play this game", and they will...

I think an NHL team would take part in such exhibition games simply to reach overseas fans, and perhaps increase fan mechandise sales? Not really sure if it's worth it though, but atleast back in the day when Anaheim's Ducks were Mighty, they made some visits to Japan (iirc) - I guess they were trying to market the game to the nation and perhaps wake some interest to the sport and Anaheim merchandice (and the movie?).

Kekkonen · Post by **Kekkonen** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:49 pm

They'll undoubtedly say 'you play this game', but I seriously doubt they'll say 'you bust your butt playing this game' in the Victoria Cup.

jackknife77 · Post by **jackknife77** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:37 am

René Fassel said that he would like to have the Montreal Canadiens to play the first edition.

Post by **batdad** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:11 am

So Rene wants the Habs to win the Cup? Another Habs fan? Is he going to wait until 2030 to start this championship?

Sorry...the teasing is probably why you have not been around. You have been missed...

Post by **batdad** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:30 pm

Hee...and I am the last post in here. Sorry about the screw up. Dumbo me.

Post by **CatchUp** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:27 pm

batdad wrote:Hee...and I am the last post in here. Sorry about the screw up. Dumbo me.

Don't worry about it b-diddy...I posted a link to the TSN article in the Euro leagues thread thinking I was letting everyone in on some new info.

Turns out I just have to read threads that are already here, what a concept.

Post by **getzlaf15** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:12 pm

i think this is great for people in europe to get the chance to see NHL players, against there local teams, there kina copyin soccer, but i love it, as teams rarely play against randomners, if u get me?

i would love to see the Manchester Phoenix take part,

, but its only the top teams,

any idea as to how many teams will be taking part?

b-diddy, that made me laugh

Post by **B. Stinson** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:43 pm

i think this is great for people in europe to get the chance to see NHL players, against there local teams

I wish it would go the other way, too. I'd love the chance to see some European teams over the years... but with the NHL, the biggest league in the world, hardly grabbing any American network's attention(and dishing out record low ratings for the ones who do bite), I'm doubting an NHL vs Euro champ match is gonna get any coverage over here.

any idea as to how many teams will be taking part?

Eurohockey.net: "30 teams, 60 games, five stages and the NHL on target: the new Champions League begins high-flyer." And then they continue on to explain the entire format of the competition.

Post by **getzlaf15** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:51 pm

thanks alot, is there any news as how many teams from each league, im guessin the NHL will have more teams in the league

at the moment, the nhl need to focus on getting a better provider, "versus" whats that? i think it shud get the publicity, as this is a more worldwide event, well... hopefully

eme · Post by **eme** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:53 am

Actually, if i'm correct, the 30 teams consist only of european teams, and one of the NHL teams will be selected to play in a series that consists 2 european teams and one NHL team. Not sure about this though.

Post by **getzlaf15** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:28 pm

ahhh i see, there should be 2 just to even it out, but at least with only 1, it means there will be a european team in the final, maybe the stanely cup finalists should be involved in it, or the winners of each conference

eme · Post by **eme** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:15 pm

Again, i have nothing to back this up, but i recall the stanley cup winner would not be able to participate due to scheduling conflicts, hence it would be some team that didn't either make it past first round or even to playoffs. It would seem reasonable, since the Victoria cup will be played before world championships, because leagues are already over by then.

Post by **batdad** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:28 pm

bah...the Stanley Cup champion has no scheduling problems that the other teams don't. That is a load of hogwash if the NHL ever said it.

Basically..the NHL wants to use this tournament thing as a pre-season exhibition. They do not want the champs playing..because it would be mainly the champs farm team...Such rubbish about scheduling.