Player condition

Jonhw · Post by **Jonhw** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:20 pm

First post!

Im using the Smetana rosters and playing as the Red Wings. Im just approaching the olympic break and im experiencing some major problems with my team. 1st part of the season i dominated the league and was firing on all cylinders. Now im 3-3-4 in my last 10 games and really inconsistent. I reckon its down to the condiiton of my players. Fair enough Chris Chelios is going to get tired alot quicker than the ounger guys, but Manny Legace in particular will start a game on 95-100%, and be at 60% by the end of the game, wherease the opposition goalie will have gone down maybe 10%. I bring in Osgood every few games ot give Manny a rest but it dosent seem to have any effect.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any help

Post by **Minstrel** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:55 pm

Jonhw wrote:First post!

Welcome to TBL!! Good to have you here. If you wouldn't mind I usually ask new posters how they found the game and after they had the game how they made it over to TBL if you wouldn't mind sharing

As for your problem with players getting beaten down by game's end there are two main factors to look at and it could be either or both in your particular game.

One is that players get "potential" injuries during games and that can knock them quickly down to 65-75. I don't know if you are coaching your games but if you are you can check your team's health between periods to make sure nobody is hurting. On their profile pages it will say something like "Potential Knee Injury". Some players seem to be "better"

at picking these up for some reason. I had a game where Jovonovski could barely make it through back to back games without one

To shield from this a bit you can have them set in tactics to not play as aggressively; for example put their individual hitting orders to 'easy'. Not much else you can do really, like injuries they tend to come in bunches

Since you're noticing this more at the end of the season it could be some combonation of playtime and training schedule. For guys with low stamina ratings they can't play on a regular line and on a first line PK or PP. The playtime will be too much for them especially if the game ends up featuring a lot of special teams play. Guys with an 18 or 19 can play on their line on the first PP line and the second PK line but that's about it. So check how much time your guys are logging in relation to their stamina. In order to "hide" lesser stamina guys a bit but still have them play PK or PP put them on the second line and set your team options to "Favor First" line on the powerplay. That will more often send out your 1st set and those should be guys with higher staminas. To knock it down even more, possibly even have them play only on the 2nd line of your 5 on 3 PP or 3 man PK.

The other related problem could be your training schedules. If you set guys with low stamina to practice 'Intensive' settings on especially Conditioning they might wear themselves down in practive so much that they never rebound fully to 100% so they are starting out lower and that fatigue causes them to wear out more quickly in games. I've often set up an 'OldGuys' schedule where they only condition lightly and (for a d-man) do medium defensive and tactical training. I did that with Marchment and he started making it through games without sinking to the 70s.

If you haven't you should check out our EHM Guide; you can download a 69 page pdf file of it in our downloads section or the link at the top of the white of the forum page that says 'EHM Guide' will take you to the online version. It has info that even experienced players may not know about and the training and tactics sections will give you all the details you might need to change the settings

Jonhw · Post by **Jonhw** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:11 am

Thanks for the help. I found the game after noticing its existence on the SI games website wen getting a patch for Football Manager. Having been a big fan of SIs football games for a long time i thought id try the demo of EHM cos i also love hockey. I got absolutely hooked within minutes. I found this site by going through the links on SIs site.
As for the advice, I used your 'old guys' schedule advice and it seems to be working great so far. Ive got a couple of games till the olympic break so then all my players shud be back to full. Still having problems with Legace. I gave him 4 games off, he started on 100% and was down to 65% by the end of the game. I subsequently lost in overtime

Post by **Minstrel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:51 am

Good to have another player around; it is an addictively great game

Glad to hear that my suggestions are working a bit for you at least... what is Legace's stamina rating?

Also make sure your game is up to 2.1.3 (it displays that info at the top of the page when you click on the 'Game Setup' menu item). I know they've been updating the try-and-buy's as they've gone along but it depends when you picked up your game so if you aren't at 2.1.3 grab the patch

Jonhw · Post by **Jonhw** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:54 pm

My game is patched to the latest version. Legace's stamina rating is 12. Are there any ways to raise this?

Post by **Minstrel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:34 pm

Ahh... that is the problem then; much below a 15 they have a tendancy to have a rough time making it through an entire game and be ready for the next. Most full times have a 16-20 rating. In Legace's case the low number is reflective of his being a backup for so long but never playing as a starter really to build up the conditioning of a full timer.

You can probably raise him a point or two if you have him do intensive conditioning for a good chunk of a season. But then it's a bit of a catch-22 because for him to raise his stamina so he can play more he'll have to practice until he wears himself out and that means he probably won't be able to play as much

Jonhw · Post by **Jonhw** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:35 pm

Ill probably get a veteran 1st choice in the off season then, so Legace can have another year as a backup to get fitter. Thanks for all the help

Post by **Minstrel** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:52 am

No problem

ie99jro · Post by **ie99jro** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:18 pm

I have a question regarding when do you feel that your players condition starts to affect their performance on the ice. I feel that when the condition starts to get below 88-85% you don't see them contributing the same. Of course it depends on the condition of the opponents but if they are 95% or similar I have found it hard to get anything in the net.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:34 am

Yeah I find when they get that low, unless they are superstar calibre they get little if anything done. It explains why so many people talk about having teams come from behind on them. Their players are too tired in the last 10 minutes or so of the game. I have run Heatley ragged though, and he never seems to slow down. Havlat on the other hand...icky after about 93%.

BTW...nice job pulling an old thread for your question that applies. I like you.

But not in that way.

ie99jro · Post by **ie99jro** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:37 am

Nice to hear that you have the same problem/experience. I usally don't mix with the lines but try to pull some players out of PP or PK if I see them get down to 90 or similar!

How do you guys handle the issue?

Post by **batdad** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:52 pm

I play my fourth liners all the time.

No...depending on the game, I may rest some of the bigger players (big lead) but if not a big lead, I tend to leave em out there and just change tactics a bit, and pray pray pray there is no comeback,.

Post by **Shadd666** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:05 am

If my top liners are tired and i'm leading, i start to match lines 3vs1 and 4vs2. As i lead, the opposing team will probably sent their top two lines tons of icetime, so my top two lines will have time to rest, while my bottom two will be fresh enough to (hopefully) handle the opposing top players and prevent them from coming back. Usually it works well. And if the opposing team is starting to come back too close, my top guys generally had enough resting minutes to go back into the battle and solidy (or increase!) our lead.

If i'm trailing and my top guys are tired, i mix lines with (not too) tired stars and fresh players. The top players who are too tired are down on the lines along with checkers and defensive guys, so that there's someone to cover the mistakes they do due to tireness. It rarely works well enough to come back, but it does sometimes. At least it avoids to explode and loose by a lot, and so prevents a big moral drop within the team.

ie99jro · Post by **ie99jro** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:05 pm

I have tried Shadd666 second example some times with some luck, but I try to do my best by managing the problem before it happens eg players that are about to get tired get pull of PP and PK. I haven't tried the first case with putting the 3v1 line etc but I will give it a test later on. My 3rd and 4th lines are a bit weak this year, so we will see if they can mange that.

Post by **Shadd666** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:57 pm

I use the 3v1 because i have guys like Yelle, Pandolfo, Dingman, or Foy on my bottom lines, which makes things easier to kill some minutes

Other than that, i try to pull off of my special units the guys who are about being tired too. Sometimes i don't check early enough to prevent them from being tired though. The other method is to go after players who all have a very high stamina

Richie Daggers Crime · Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:34 pm

I don't know if it's okay to dig up old threads, but I'm having similar problems. I'm in 2023, and I always have guys that have their condition inexplicably plummet down from 95%-98% to the 70% range or lower in one game. These aren't 37-38 year olds with 12 stamina either.

For example, I have a young (21) center playing on my farm team. His stamina is fine (16) and his TOI isn't ridiculous (atoi 19:09) but I have to monitor his condition every day because he'll drop down to the 60-65% range in one game. This happens to a handful of my players on a semi-regular basis. Is this just a game mechanic to represent players that aren't durable? It's annoying because I have to check condition every day and if I have 2-3 games in a row, forget about it.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:57 pm

Yes, it's okay to dig up old threads... in fact, it's preferred that you do that rather than start new threads on the same subject. So... thanks!

As for your problem, I have the same thing happen sometimes. I just attribute it to a player getting banged up or run down but not injured. I know it's not a good answer but it's the only one I have and since the game is no longer being worked on, it's what I've come to accept.

CrockerNHL · Post by **CrockerNHL** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:03 pm

Richie Daggers Crime wrote: I'm in 2023, and I always have guys that have their condition inexplicably plummet down from 95%-98% to the 70% range or lower in one game. These aren't 37-38 year olds with 12 stamina either.

In addition to the above, try to rest them more between games (100% condition) and put them on a heavy conditioning regime in your Practise screen from time to time. It should help.

Richie Daggers Crime · Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:05 pm

bruins72 wrote:Yes, it's okay to dig up old threads... in fact, it's preferred that you do that rather than start new threads on the same subject. So... thanks!

As for your problem, I have the same thing happen sometimes. I just attribute it to a player getting banged up or run down but not injured. I know it's not a good answer but it's the only one I have and since the game is no longer being worked on, it's what I've come to accept.

Thanks. It's a catch-22 because I have to rest him to keep him in good condition, but of course if a player gets more than a couple days rest his attributes drop like a rock.

I guess I just have to keep an eye out for these high-maintenance players and look to move them if they don't improve in this area.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:26 am

I find that the majority of my time playing this game is spent managing the practice schedule. You may want to look at how you have your practices set up. Too many on "Intensive" can cause players to rebound more slowly after a game. Also your coaching staff has a lot to do with it. A coach with a discipline of 95 (19) light practice may be harder than an intensive practice from a coach with a discipline of 40 (8). Just look at the Blue Jackets under Hitchcock

Morning skates are now harder than practices used to be.

The way I tend to work it is thus:

between back-to-back-games, everyone who played gets the day off (except the goalie if I am playing the other one on the next night and maybe the 3rd or 4th liners if they didn't play much)

1 day between games: anyone with a condition under 92% gets a day off.

2 or more days between games: anyone with a condition under 90% gets a day off.

Always set this BEFORE you click continue for the next day. If you don't set them to "Resting" before you get to the next day's "AM", you get no benefit from resting them. Look at each player after a game to look for potential injuries. I've had them on players with a condition over 95%. If they have a potential injury listed by their condition, give them a day off, it won't hurt their stats and you may save a short to mid term injury from happening. When you get to the morning of each new day, review the practice schedules again to make sure that recouperated players start working again and maybe a guy needs an extra day off. I have very few instances of dropping stats with this method and get the results I am looking for. Plus my star players stay fresher longer and are in better shape for the playoffs. Hope this helps.

pinheirobcp · Post by **pinheirobcp** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:59 am

Hypnotist: Have you noticed if, with this pratice regimen, your veterans keep their stamina/skating (generaly, their physical) attributes without drop for longer? Or maybe shorter? I notice it's always the skating and stamina that drop first as a player age, I've never been able to efficiently avoid or delay it.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:04 am

Once a guy hits 30...I believe it was Riz or Graeme at SI once said...put them on skating or fitness..

Skating--intense skating, fitness, O Skills
Fitness-intesnse skating, fitness (conditioning), Dskills

With the other 3 on medium.

Then in the off season...I put everyone on intense including positioning. It works wonders and generally I feel maxes out their conditioning and strength.

Richie Daggers Crime · Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:18 am

Hypnotist wrote:I find that the majority of my time playing this game is spent managing the practice schedule.

I agree. The thing is, as I've gone further and further into the game, I find myself managing practice more and more often. It seems like the more regens you start getting, the touchier the players are about condition. I started a new career for fun a few weeks ago and was shocked at how quickly and consistently players bounced back to top condition.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:19 am

Practice is an every day thing for me. EVery day in the game, not real life

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:23 am

pinheirobcp: No, I haven't noticed any major (i.e. across the board, majority of players) problems with this scheme. I usually have skating on intensive to keep everybody's speed up. Speed is a killer in the game High Speed + marginal skill = servicable NHLer...High Speed + High Skill = All-Star. That is a vague generalization of course, but you get my point. In my Columbus game, Adam Foote's speed actually went up from 50 to 65 over the course of 2 seasons at the age of 35-36. Still not very fast for the NHL, but at least he can outskate my kids now

Player condition

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