The official 2007-08 NHL Season discussion thread.

Coyote of the Sea · Post by **Coyote of the Sea** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:24 am

oh and in case you looked i also never said the calls were just BS against the coyotes, there were a lot of no class against both teams (though no-calls on rubbish penalties that take away from the defensive game), and i don't know about icing rules, its not like i've followed hockeys for years okay? i don't know all the rules, hell half the new rules i don't get (like all the high sticking calls) because last time i really watched games was in the middle to late 90's with some defense (i love the hard hitting games, not the technique style stuff.) Thats why i didn't mention the black hawks cause because a lot that i could see were mostly no-calls both away (which quite a few hawk fans agreed that the no-calls were going both ways).

And i wasn't being biases, i went by what i could see from the game, and a lot of it was blind referring, with some **** reffing in between. Just like i thought in the game last night with the yotes and blues, the refs missed a lot of calls that should have sent yotes to the box. And again i was upset at the refs because of some **** class in that hawk game. I never said they changed the game at all though, so i fail to see your point. The yotes lost that game due to no agression on the offensive side, not converting on chances and just looking flat out bad. Hell they should have lost the last two games but goal tending in keeping it going for the yotes right now.

Post by **Shadd666** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:01 pm

To all those complaining and whining that the refs are all doing a brutal job, please shut your mouths, take your license, become a ref, and we'll see if you can do a better job. Point blank.

And no, refs have no impact on the outscore of the game, no matter what sport you're talking about. No more in soccer than anywhere else. Why more in soccer than in hockey? Because of the video reviews? There's no video reviews in handball or basketball either. There is some in rugby and football (i mean US football there). What does it change? Nothing. The winners win, and the loosers loose, no matter who the ref is nor how he is reffing. And sometimes the video doesn't help either. Just look at some rugby tries... Sometimes, even with the video replays and the many different camera angles, you can't say for sure if it's a try or not. As for the soccer offsides being non-called, well, if the defending team did their job, there shouldn't have been any pass made, and therefore no issue with any kind of offside.

However, yes, refs make mistakes. They are humans, they make mistakes. But don't players make mistakes too? They do. And they do way more than the refs do. So don't shoot on the wrong targets.

Oh, and by the way, don't forget that without a ref, there's no game...

---

Back on topic (at least...), with the first game of Huet as a member of the Caps... and his first shutout in Washington!

I hope he'll do the same the next time the Caps will play the Habs, just to show them how wrong they were to have traded him away.

Anyone seen the Flames@Ducks game yesterday? I'd like a precision, as i didn't understood why Bertuzzi received a game misconduct after his fight with Phaneuf

Phaneuf was the one who clearly wanted to kick some asses, focusing on Corey Perry (i think it was him), before Bertuzzi came in to rescue his mate. Phaneuf get a 5 minutes major for fighting (logical), and Bertuzzi was sent out

I think the commentators were explaining it had to deal with Bert's jersey, or something like that, but then my computer crashed and i missed the explanation

Btw, nice game by the Ducks. They were a bit lucky (3 posts for the Flames), but did a fantastic job nontheless. Huselius continues to prove how useless he is when his team needs him...

I think he is something like 1 goal and 2 assists over the last 17 games... I hope Sutter won't re-sign him... Never liked Huselius... Good player, but i don't like him...

flea · Post by **flea** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:00 pm

Ha Shadd, u should watch games from the spanish football (thats soccer) league...your oppinion about referees would change rapidly, I tell u!!!

----

...and Richards makes the debut with the Stars with 5 assists!!! WOW!!!

Also Hossa with the Pengs, but only lasted 13 shifts

Out a week!!!

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:05 pm

Yeah, i was courious about how Richards, Hossa and Huet make impact, Huet and Richards overrun the expectations. What a pity for Hossa, at least Dupuis pointed on himself by the goal "Hey, I was traded too!"

Hm, refferee has rejected three goals by Canucks in game against Jackets. Jackets won after that...sucks for them

Post by **Danny** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:07 am

Shadd666 wrote: However, yes, refs make mistakes. They are humans, they make mistakes. But don't players make mistakes too? They do. And they do way more than the refs do. So don't shoot on the wrong targets.

But that exactly was my point. Both players and refs have good and bad performances, both are pro athletes...so why is it wrong to criticize/praise refs if it's perfectly ok to do that with players ?
Don't like whining about refs every single time your team loses either. What I do have a problem with is over-protection of refs. They should be criticized after bad performances and praised for good ones, just as players, regardless of the outcome of the game for your team. I'll give you 2 examples, I thought the refs were really great in the Boston vs Carolina game, eventhough the Bruins lost by one goal and one of the Canes goals was clearly kicked in. **** happens, they still did a perfect job of allowing the players to play how hockey is supposed to be played. At the same time when the Bruins beat the Penguins a couple of weeks back it was one of the worst performances by the refs I've seen all season long. They pretty much destroyed that game. Refs are a part of the game and quite frankly I don't see what's wrong with making comments about their performance.

And btw you're wrong on that football offside argument, there's a thing called offside trap in football, it's actually a very effective defensive set play, the point is actually to force the attacking team to pass and then trap the receiving player in an offside position. So if a defensive line does that and the ref misses it it is the ref who didn't do his job, not the defense

So again, I agree about the whining about refs, it's pathetic, but there's nothing wrong with commenting on their performance if they really had a great or extremely bad game. My 2 cents, that's it from me on that matter, think of it whatever you want. I just don't get the point in over-protecting refs, they're pros who should be judged just as every other pro and tbh all this over-protection is as bad as all the whining.

Post by **Shadd666** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:16 pm

flea wrote:Ha Shadd, u should watch games from the spanish football (thats soccer) league...your oppinion about referees would change rapidly, I tell u!!!

No, it wouldn't. I just have to watch my local hockey team. Last game of the season, playoffs match, 113 PIM against, with loads of imaginated 10-minutes penalties and a few highly stupid game misconducts when it was in fact the opponent who make the fault. Our goalie get a game misconduct for over-reacting after taking a clear cheapshot. The opponent didn't have any penalty for the cheapshot. Sucks. But does it prevented us from winning the game? No. We lost because our backup didn't do the job well, and because the guys couldn't keep their nerves and continue to play hockey. Our 4-3 lead became a 4-6 loss, leading to elimination. The ref clearly didn't help, but we should have win even with this, with just a bit more commitment.

And many times this season we had referees targetting at us and we won the games. We just put a bigger effort, over-worked the opponents, and then the refs decisions didn't matter any longer. Simple as that.

Danny wrote:Don't like whining about refs every single time your team loses either. What I do have a problem with is over-protection of refs. They should be criticized after bad performances and praised for good ones, just as players, regardless of the outcome of the game for your team.

That sums it up

But let's be honest, 99% of the ref talks are to criticize them when your team loose. How many people to do you hear crying "stupid, we lost because of this f*ckin' ref!" ? I'm sure you heard that way more than "nice, we won the game, but too bad the ref nearly offered us the game, as we didn't deserve the win and benefited from refs mistakes" And i'm just fed up with people who can't admit that their team simply lost, and always search on the refs side rather than on the players side. That's probably why i should look "over-protecting" toward the refs, but believe me: the refs aren't over-protected! They are in fact under-protected. How many times are they insulted? And most of the time, insulted while making the good call, but a good call against the local team. Worse, they are sometimes physically attacked by brainless "fans". You can see this quite often in amateur soccer leagues in France. So i wouldn't say that the refs are over-protected. Just look here: only batdad and i defend the refs while everyone attacks them. Is it over-protection? I don't think so.

So yes, refs should be judged, and in fact they are by the different ref comissions. But some fans (and they are a lot!) should also rent a brain before making a comment about about a ref. Or just don't talk about refs and support their team more.

Oh, and for the offside trap in soccer... trap sucks... so is soccer...

200% not objective, but that's my point.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:04 pm

I know Sergei Gonchar isn't (or atleast shouldn't be) very happy today after last night.

Post by **batdad** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:38 pm

Shadd is right whining about refs is a waste of time. Let's call an end to it completely. No more ref whining.

AS for disallowed goals for Vancouver-didn't see em, but nothing is being noted by the media here out of the ordinary. Guess they weren't goals.

Whazzup with Gonchar now?

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:03 pm

batdad wrote:Shadd is right whining about refs is a waste of time. Let's call an end to it completely. No more ref whining.

AS for disallowed goals for Vancouver-didn't see em, but nothing is being noted by the media here out of the ordinary. Guess they weren't goals.

Whazzup with Gonchar now?

Gave the game away to the Sens last night, first he made a really bad shot on power play that led to Alfredsson scoring a shorthanded goal and later on he just flipped on Alfredsson and got himself a 2+2 penalty, during which the Sens scored twice.

Post by **batdad** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:53 pm

So he played his normal game? Or did he not get 2 points?

flea · Post by **flea** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:25 pm

We dont attack the refs Shadd, we only state what is obvious!!! Thats all!!!

U and batdad can tell me what u guys want, I still would believe refs can ruin games. And they do, they really do...just make a quick search in the net and u will find loooots of cases and examples about that. Maybe not so much in hockey, but surely in other sports they do!!!

And no, I would not shut up to whine about them (well, at least in my normal life) because they get PAID for that!!! As soon as u decide u will be a referee u know that there will be thousands of people whacking u and whining about u, but I repeat myself; they got paid for that the same as players are paid for the same reason.

Well, its obvious that players and referees are paid to play and to call games, but IMHO they are public persons and u can whine about them as much as u want.

And dont get me wrong here, Iam not talking about animals who beat them up or call them things, thats just not right, but as soon as I pay my ticket for the game I have a right to whine about what I want, including referees!!!

To make it short, I totally agree with Danny!!! Believe it or not, when I talk with my friends about soccer, basketball, hockey and so on we do talk about referees and we do it also when they do it right...and when do u know that a referee was good??? When u dont have to talk about them!!!
Sadly we have to talk about them too much...

Iam sorry, but I just cant let it stand as it was...

Post by **batdad** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:57 pm

I am disappointed as to where this referee conversation is going. It is getting a bit personal with shut ups, and all kinds of things being said. Clearly, it is too heated a topic to discuss rationally, and I am saying because of that, we should stop.

I am just as to blame as anyone, but at this point I think this needs to come to an end. Move on guys. Refs suck for everyone equally. So move on to other discussions.

Canucks will lose to the Hawks today 9-1.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:17 pm

Yet another exciting hockey game has passed-away today, when the good Flyers vs Rangers game was settled with a coin-flip... er, I mean shoot-out.

"Earned Wins", R.I.P.

Coyote of the Sea · Post by **Coyote of the Sea** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:19 pm

out of curousity (mainly for my fantasy team) but does Wings and Loses for a goalie work the same as in Baseball for pitchers?

Like okay in the flyers games, Biron comes on with the Flyers trailing (IIRC) but they get it tied up, but lose the shootout. Does we get a Win a loss or? and if he gave up no goals outside of the shootout, then it doesn't count as any GAs?

russman · Post by **russman** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:49 pm

Coyote of the Sea wrote:out of curousity (mainly for my fantasy team) but does Wings and Loses for a goalie work the same as in Baseball for pitchers?

Like okay in the flyers games, Biron comes on with the Flyers trailing (IIRC) but they get it tied up, but lose the shootout. Does we get a Win a loss or? and if he gave up no goals outside of the shootout, then it doesn't count as any GAs?

Well, the goalie who is on the ice when the game winning goal is scored gets the win or the loss. In that situation Biron would get the loss. I don't think shootout goals count against a goalies GAA.

Post by **batdad** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:23 pm

Shootouts do not count for any individual stats. Only OT/SO losses and wins.

Post by **Shadd666** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:54 pm

flea wrote:they got paid for that the same as players are paid for the same reason.

Aren't the players paid way more than the refs? Aren't the refs way more criticized than the players?

Oh well, think what you want afterall... As batdad said, it may be time to just stop discussing about refs, or this thread will uselessly end in a nuclear war

russman wrote:Well, the goalie who is on the ice when the game winning goal is scored gets the win or the loss.

I always wondered about that, but never thought about asking... Thanks for the info

B. Stinson wrote:...was settled with a coin-flip... er, I mean shoot-out.

"Earned Wins", R.I.P.

What? Shootout wins are earned!!!

Just look at all the skills it take to score a shootout goal, and how spectacular it is, making it highly enjoyable for the millions of fans all over the world!

Yup, that was ironic...

Shootouts suck

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:00 pm

Anyone has seen what happened in Red Wings @ Sabres game?

Watch:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HGm1FSBr5DE
[3:28]

Sabres player reel on himself 4 Wings players by fight, while the other two Sabres players take the puck and do the breakaway.

Post by **Shadd666** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:50 pm

What a horrible night for the Bruins

With a brutal 10-2 loss to the Caps...

And Price was way way far from being impressive against the Sharks and cost the game to the Habs... He is Habs goalie of the future for sure, but i don't trust he is their goalie of the present... Huet and the Caps may be laughing right now...

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:53 pm

Yeah, the Bruins had a horrible night. It's okay though. They had a great stretch of games going there and they just broke that streak in a big way. Hopefully, they'll recover and get things going again.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:57 pm

gibson41 wrote:Anyone has seen what happened in Red Wings @ Sabres game?

Watch:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HGm1FSBr5DE
[3:28]

Sabres player reel on himself 4 Wings players by fight, while the other two Sabres players take the puck and do the breakaway.

Utter BS. The whistle should have gone.

*edit* - DING!!! I'm now a Minor Leaguer!!! YEAH!

Post by **Shadd666** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:33 am

bruins72 wrote:Yeah, the Bruins had a horrible night. It's okay though. They had a great stretch of games going there and they just broke that streak in a big way.

As we say, it's better to be smashed 10-0 once that 1-0 ten times!

It was 10-2 btw, for those who didn't see it.

Post by **Tasku** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:08 pm

Shadd666 wrote:It was 10-2 btw, for those who didn't see it.

I didn't, but I sure can "see" in my mind how the Boston fans were booing their own team and walking out en mass at 2nd Intermission. Bliss...

Post by **Danny** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:32 pm

I don't think there are that many Bruins fans in Washington.

Post by **Tasku** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:00 pm

Oh, darn. I read it from a Finnish website where it said something like Caps taking a 10-2 win "from Boston", so I interpeted it as away game... Oh well...