Player condition

pinheirobcp · Post by **pinheirobcp** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:57 pm

I agree, speed is a killer, for sure. I just noticed, some of my star players have dropped their skating from 20 to 15 or 14 in a matter of one and a half seasons. Stamina and strength are other that dropped the same way. I admit it can be considered normal, they're 36 to 37, but I was wondering if there is any way to avoid it.

When it hit 15, I put them both (in this case, Marleau and Thonton) in intensive skating and fitness training, and it has not dropped thus far. Some other examples are seen on players I don't own, like Iginla at 38 with Speed 5, or something like that.

If it falls any further, they'll seriously lose value to my team, alltough their technical attributes are still as high as on their prime.

Richie Daggers Crime · Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:51 pm

I've found that once a player hits 36-37, the dip in physical attributes is unavoidable to a certain extent. But, I've seen those 39 year olds with single digit physical attributes still put up 30 goal 80 point seasons.... plus, they still ask for big money and key status. Heh.

Loosie · Post by **Loosie** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:11 pm

I had Pronger until he was 42, and he still wanted a lot of money. When I offered him a new contract he said that he was not interested in ending his playing career at this time.

I didn't sign him and I have yet to see his official retirement annoucment, and no one else has pick him up...I'll have to double check later to see if he's still in the game.

pinheirobcp · Post by **pinheirobcp** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:21 pm

Very often players remain a whole year unsigned, not accepting ANY contract offer, then retire around July or August of the following summer. They still play for the National Team, however. I've manager a Team Canada lineup with Todd Bertuzzi, Scott Niedermayer, Martin Brodeur, Ryan Smyth in the European tournaments (Deuschland Cup, Swiss Cup), all unsigned by the NHL.

And yeah, some of those players with very very low skatin attributes still put up good offensive numbers all around the league, but I've never had one of those perform well for me, I feel they drag the whole line down.

V4ND3RP00L · Post by **V4ND3RP00L** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:50 am

I tend just throw everything on intense for both my offensive and defensive players and my goaltenders as well.

I tend to see that sometimes the younger players can have problems at times and the older players can start to run themselves crazy.

Even though that happens somewhat soon or on long breaks, they always jump back into normal play. Needless to say, they all end up being in great condition after the first year and after that, it's all over for me.

They play great and win plenty of games for me.

Post by **Danny** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:24 am

Richie Daggers Crime wrote:I've found that once a player hits 36-37, the dip in physical attributes is unavoidable to a certain extent. But, I've seen those 39 year olds with single digit physical attributes still put up 30 goal 80 point seasons.... plus, they still ask for big money and key status. Heh.

I guess that still depends on the player. In the Hawks challenge I traded for Niedermayer, kept extending his contract for one more season every year and he seemed happy with getting about 10-15% less everytime. I gave him an NTC and he just expressed how much he enjoys playing for the team and wants to spend the rest of his career there. His stats didn't really decline either, I think he lost 1-2 points in speed and acceleration over the years.

vissia · Post by **vissia** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:50 am

I have a couple questsions that kind of related to this, but not entirely. Anyways, I will post them here.

If you let your head coach run practices,

1.) does he give the players a day off when their condition gets low? if so, when (90%? 85%?)
2.) is he going to run with the scheme that you've set? i.e. if I put everything to intensive in the general, are my players in that group going to train intensively in everything now? or is the coach gonna run general training his own way?

I suppose not many ppl have tried that, but I think we have a few "GM only - I don't even touch practice" player around.

pinheirobcp · Post by **pinheirobcp** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:48 am

I can't answe the 1st question, but the 2nd, no, he will make up his own schedule. From what I've seen, it's basically everyone training the same way, with everything set to medium, no light or intensive. So, yeah, do the pratice yourself.

Richie Daggers Crime · Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:57 pm

Ugh. I'm about to give up on this game. I just did a pre-season game and had 2 players on my AHL squad go from 92% condition to 51% IN ONE GAME. One player had 17:42 TOI and the other 12:21, so it's not like they were run ragged. I just don't get how this happens.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:31 pm

Not in good shape, ill..who knows? Hasek regen did that to me for every season. One year he dropped to 9% even though he was not even backing up or practicing. Just was a lazy bugger (4 workrate)...Traded him for something good but forget what.

Post by **Shadd666** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:36 am

Condition drops by a lot in pre-season games. But in the same time, put your guys set to rest right after the game, and they'll be at 100% the next morning (unless they have an intra-squad scrimmage).

Things go back to normal around the start of the season... every season... so i see no point on giving up just for that...

I think the game tries to simulate the fact that, being back from holidays, the players aren't in good shape yet (reason why there's a training camp and pre-season games). It's probably not 100% accurate, but it certainly doesn't ruin your gameplans... Plus, who cares about the results of pre-season games?

Richie Daggers Crime · Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:21 pm

Shadd666 wrote:I think the game tries to simulate the fact that, being back from holidays, the players aren't in good shape yet (reason why there's a training camp and pre-season games). It's probably not 100% accurate, but it certainly doesn't ruin your gameplans... Plus, who cares about the results of pre-season games?

Well, it took 6 days to get them back over 90%, so they had to sit out the first two games of the season.

Also, the "condition drop" extends into the season for me.

Post by **vilifyingforce** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:42 pm

Well, then I'd say your working your guys too hard. You can't really put them on intensive practises until around the 15th of September, if you start much before that the guys never make it to a good condition level and just get driven into the ground.

V4ND3RP00L · Post by **V4ND3RP00L** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:06 pm

I start them off on intensive practices as soon as I get them signed or drafted. The only reason that I do that is because if I can get them prepared on on the path of practicing hard.

Then they get use to it and have no problem all season long and on top of that stuff.

They do well the next season as well, but I will admit that some of the older folks tend to have trouble keeping up these days. Just depends who it is and whether they are already injury prone or not.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:56 pm

I intensive practice my guys all summer long. All the time. Right til training camp starts. When they get tired in August (around 65%) I rest em for a day..then I practice them again on intensive. It usually takes about a week for them to get tired again. Then training camp starts, and I rest em for a day.

BOOM! Back to 100% and in good shape for camp and the season.

I then follow my normal training regimens for the players during the season.

The only exception that caused any issues for this was the Hasek regen. Not sure what was up with him, cept for the horrible work rate.

So...intense practice all summer does not cause the issues for me. You can put em on intense whenever you want. And they do get in shape fast. Trust me. I rarely go into a season with more than a fourth liner and backup goalie not in game condition.

Sorry Dybbuk but you are flat out wrong on this one

Richie Daggers Crime · Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:06 pm

I generally follow the traditional, tried-and-true practice regime (3 med/3 int/1 light). Much like batdad, I work my players hard during the offseason. Generally speaking, I haven't had trouble with this methodology, but as I get deeper and deeper into the regens, this condition thing has gotten worse and worse (I'm in 2023).

It's just annoying to see a player drop down to, say 81% in one game... then go, "ok, I need to rest him", put him to rest for a couple days, then see his attributes slide down a couple points.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:24 pm

Are these regens stamina or work ethic losers like my Hasek regen was?

Taloncarde · Post by **Taloncarde** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:51 am

This is kind of related to condition issues, so I guess this is the best thread.

One thing i've never really understood despite having played multiple SI games is the "Not in game shape" condition. Does that mean they are technically healthy, but not ready for a full game? Or is that indicating that the player needs to get some ice time?

Post by **Shadd666** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 am

Second option.

The guy didn't play for too long, and needs to re-adjust himself on the ice. It takes a few games, and most of the time he is not playing that great during those games, as he lost the playing rythm, his automatisms, etc.

If possible (which is not always the case, depending on your pre-season plans), try to play those guys a lot during pre-season games, giving them some extra special unit time, etc, so that they are mostly or totally in shape when the season starts. Some guys will need between 2 and 5 games to be back in shape... Others would need 10-15 games or sometimes more, so you'd better start early

Big Six · Post by **Big Six** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:07 pm

I'm encountering an unusual situation with a player on my OHL team.

He's a defenceman, and a very good one. The ISS lists him as the #1 prospect for the upcoming NHL draft.

I use him on my first defence pairing and the first power play unit, and he's usually on the #2 penalty killing unit. His stamina is very good (16/20), and my trainers consistently say he's able to log lots of ice time.

However, if he plays more than about 20 minutes in a game, he wears himself out completely. His condition drops to 65% or so, which means I don't dare play him in the next game unless he has nearly a week to recover.

He had a wrist injury in November, but he seemed to recover completely. He's never listed as being injured now, and the trainers don't mention anything about him being hurt if I ask them about his condition.

Any ideas about what's going on here?

Sorry in advance if this has been addressed somewhere else. If it was, I didn't see it.

Thanks!

Merged with an existing topic. Please use the search function before starting a new thread. I found this one very easily. - B72

Post by **batdad** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:48 pm

Practice conditioning.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:07 pm

What batdad said. Plus, check your practice schedule and maybe ease off him a bit (modify a practice schedule just for him). Do you ever rest your players? Personally, if one of my top players is below 85% after a game, he gets put on "Resting" before I hit continue to the next day (the game calcs recovery in between "EVE" and "AM", so check your practice scheds after every game to rest those who may need it and again the next morning to get them back at it.) If we have back-to-back games, only the 3rd/4th liners + backup G practice. If we have a 3-in-3 the whole team gets the second day off. I rarely have any trouble with attribs dropping with this scheme and if they do, I dump the player.

Richie Daggers Crime · Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:09 pm

batdad wrote:Practice conditioning.

I've run into this problem as well and I don't think the solution is as easy as practicing conditioning. It can be a vicious circle if you try to keep a player on a fitness regime. Conditioning wears on the players and lengthens their recovery time.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 pm

Hypnotist wrote:What batdad said. Plus, check your practice schedule and maybe ease off him a bit (modify a practice schedule just for him). Do you ever rest your players? Personally, if one of my top players is below 85% after a game, he gets put on "Resting" before I hit continue to the next day (the game calcs recovery in between "EVE" and "AM", so check your practice scheds after every game to rest those who may need it and again the next morning to get them back at it.) If we have back-to-back games, only the 3rd/4th liners + backup G practice. If we have a 3-in-3 the whole team gets the second day off. I rarely have any trouble with attribs dropping with this scheme and if they do, I dump the player.

This is very good advice. I always rest any player who is about 85% or below. Sometimes I even rest them if they're under 90%. You have to get an idea of what is normal for that player. I have some players who will be at around 88% after every game. If that's normal for them, I'll keep them on practice. If they're usually higher, then I'll rest them.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:46 pm

Sorry Richie...it is the way to go. I have checked one hundred times on this with players. Both age 16 and 35. It won't be a short term solution, but in the long term it is the only way to get the kid to be able to play more minutes. It takes awhile, and also by maybe slightly decreasing ice time for a bit, you end up developing the stamina of the player beyond expectations.

Recovery time from what? practice? Or are you talking injured players? Because my guys in all challenges have had no issues with recov time. In my current Canucks game Steve Bernier had a real problem playing 1st line min's on 2nd pp. Eased back to 2nd line minutes, 1st line pp. Stamina attribute has gone with the intense conditioning practice in 1 year from 13 to 17. Now he can play 1st line pp and 1st line minutes. No issue with recov time, and he has not been injured at all. Just practiced. Wellwood stamina has jumped markedly too. He is now at an 18. Bieksa is 18, Mitchell is 18.....all from practice and playing more and more minutes. It is how it is done. You cannot rest a guy, and expect him to be able to handle more time. You have to push em.

I do of course, rest the guys after a game (and I am even a littlle more strict about it...if they are 93% they practice general on that game day. All others under 91% or if it says "needs a rest" take a rest.

Player condition

Fatigue/condition issue