No Heavy Weights?

[selne]

Don't know if already mentioned but there is '"weight problem" in this game.

Let me try to describe it in my really not finished english:
The computer always uses the 1-2-2 forechecking.
The centre will pressurize the puck and if the centre is a heavy weight like
Sundin, Thornton, Marleau, Zubrus, Handzus, Stumpel etc. with a weight around 220 lbs (100kg)
the game prefers to simulate a hit in a duel situation just because they are so heavy.

Now every single hit counts to the player's avarage rating and those types of centres you will
always see them throwing 300 to 500 hits a season and their avarage rating explodes.
In the first season if you look at the player stats and arrange them by the avg. rating you will
see the heavy weight centres up in front. Sundin will certainly lead with 9.50 or even better.
You could even see players with a brutal minus rating get a 8.8 avarage rating.

There are two code fragments in the game.exe that mainly affect a duel situation.
Every player gets a kind of container representing him on the ice.
When two containers collapse two things will happen in most cases:
1. the container with the bigger weight will hit the other.
2. the lighter container will try to avoid this hit and stay away and of course not hit or pokecheck.

The first one leads to the many hits -> good rating situation described above.
Even a player like Stumpel who is not aggressive and doen's have a good hitting attribute
will be simulated just like other heavy weigths and throw many many hits.

The second is even more discouraging because a forward with a big weight
will have little trouble to skate to the net without being checked.
This helps to explain why untalented heavy weight wingers like Stewart,
Ponikovksi will score tons of goals.
A player like Chelios and his regen will never play like a star player.
You will never see him throw that much hits just because he is not heavy weight.

I hope that my description helps to answer some questions around in this forum.
I saw a lot of topics about certain players suprising with their performances
(e.g Kvasha, Zubrus, Handzus, Stumpel, everyone wishes to get Marleau in their roster)
Even if Crosby is the most talented guy in the game you will never see him get the best avg. ratings.

Also you will see teams like Minnesota being strong in the defensive aspects because they have
so much weight in their defensive.

Another aspect is the difference between wingers and centres.
The only situation when 1-2-2 forechecking is not used is the Penalty Killing.
Big sized wingers don't hit very much in even strong lineups but have the opportunity to forecheck on PK.
You have both winger and center forechecking and they get about the same extent of hits.
Just look at Jarome Iginla. Most of his hits come from penalty killing.



The main question is:
How to avoid these "big player, i will not check or pokecheck you because i am small player" situations???
and help the small players perform better.
The only key should be to use the talent of these small players and technical attributes.
I like to see good performances from players like Briere, Drury, Rafalski, Zetterberg etc.

I use man to man instead of zonal defense and match lines.
That way the small players get better opportunity to check the opposite and use their techniques
to pokecheck and breakaway.
I'am still trying to find out what's the best tactics to succed with small players especially in the defensive aspect.
So far i am proud i could get Afinogenov score 53 goals, a plus 17 rating and 91 hits on a line with Vanek and Roy in their first season.

You may ask why all this effort?
To me it's much more interesting to get the most of a Bouchard and see him ending with a positive plus rating
than putting a Sundin type player in the lineup and see him score and hit no matter what tactics you use.
On the other hand i like the salary cap just like in real life since it gives every team a fair chance.
Lets say Daniel Briere ends up with the same total points and +/- rating like Mats Sundin. Because of the difference in the total hits there will be a big difference in the avarage rating and you will have to pay Sundin much more than Briere.

In my current dynasty i play with the Sabres and i do have trouble to play defense (my PK is about 83 % currently)
but i got encouraged through the last game when Vanek scored three shorthanded goals out of four pk situations against Brodeur.
When i should find a good PK tactic and other tactics to get the most of small but talented players in the future i will certainly post them all.


I am motivated by the hope to find tactics in the end that really loves the talent and skill but not the weight just like in real life.

Anyone with me?

The bad english i can't do no more than apologize.

[Tasku]

You've really put some thought on this.

But if I remember correctly: weight has no effect in the game. It's strength you need to be looking at. Weight is like the player's place of birth: background info.

[B. Stinson]

Although, isn't strength linked to weight(and height)?... giving weight an indirect impact?

[Tasku]

Or morelike the game calculating value of weight by a formula out of strength?

So yeah, I guess you could look at weight as some sort of indicator, but still the attributes is where you should look for when judging player's abilities.

[Franck]

Although, isn't strength linked to weight(and height)?... giving weight an indirect impact?

It's not.
Perhaps when the researchers originally set the strenght of a player but it isn't linked in the game engine.

[Salming]

does players weight increase when the player gets older?

[selne]

Weight and height increase only for regens!
A Thornton regen will start about 198 lbs when he's 14yo
and gain muscle till he's 18 or 19 to end up around 220 lbs.
Same with height.

[Hypnotist]

Weight and height increase only for regens!

Not true. Most players will continue to grow until their early-mid twenties. If a kid is 6-6 215lbs at 18 he may not grow much, but if he is 5-11 165lbs he may add a couple of inches and 20-40 lbs before it is all said and done. I know this due to updating my scouting DB before every season.

[selne]

Hypnotist, you can't just say it's not true. Have you ever seen a Zetterberg grow in the game??
Maybe i have a special game version cause in my game he is always 5'11 and 180lbs.
And all the other players that are not regens keep their size in my game!!

[Lazion]

Hypnotist, you can't just say it's not true. Have you ever seen a Zetterberg grow in the game??
Maybe i have a special game version cause in my game he is always 5'11 and 180lbs.
And all the other players that are not regens keep their size in my game!!

I think that Hypnotist meant this:
Youngsters will grow, until they are early-mid twenties aged.
Not that veterans or over 22? year old gains height or weight at all..
And that is true. All youngsters gain weight and even height!

[batdad]

All you have to do is look at the kids who are 14/15 in junior and see that they grow. The game allows players to grow up til early 20s. Very few will grow after they go to NHL as they are usually 20 or so. However, I have seen some picks I have made...best example being Torquato..grow after I draft them. Players do grow in the game that are not regens.

So to answer your question...I have not seen Zetterberg grow, becuase he is 20 something in the game...however I have seen 1st season draft picks grow (Patrick Kane), and guys under the age of 20 when the game starts that were not regens...

But how old is Zetterberg at the start of the game? 22? Not often a 22 year old would grow any more...cept maybe pack on a few pounds from the lager.

[selne]

Well, in my game i really have never ever seen a young player that is not a regen grow,
even the youngest like Kane or Tavares.

Is this a bug or somethin? It's about EHM2007 right??

[Lazion]

Yes they grow and yes EHM07.
You can test this thing by aging ex. Zetterberg back to 14 year and simulating few years.. you will notice that even Zetter has gained more size.

[Hypnotist]

Hypnotist, you can't just say it's not true. Have you ever seen a Zetterberg grow in the game??
Maybe i have a special game version cause in my game he is always 5'11 and 180lbs.
And all the other players that are not regens keep their size in my game!!

Actually, I can. I appreciate your position, but I have done a lot of research in player development. If you want to see who is growing and getting bigger, download my NHL Scouting Database which has scouting reports and height/weights for almost 3000 NHL players and prospects. At the beginning of each season, update the player's height & weights and see for yourself. Hank is 25 at the beginning of the game with the default rosters, so no he isn't going to grow.

[selne]

Appreciate your appreciation, Hypnotist. If i could add smilies, i certainly would.

I know that a 14 years old will grow to a certain extent since i used to create some 14yo players and saw them
grow a bit.

To me it's more important that if you start a game with a 17 years old player (e.g Patrick Kane) who is draft eligible,
he will not grow anymore, right?
But if you draft a 17 years old regen he will still add about 20 lbs of muscle.
Hope this is true.

[Hypnotist]

you start a game with a 17 years old player (e.g Patrick Kane) who is draft eligible,
he will not grow anymore, right?

Unfortunately, there really isn't a way to know how much a player will grow, if at all. One of the better features of this game is that no two games are the same. Player A may grow 3 inches and gain 50 lbs. in my game and only grow 1 inch and gain only 20 lbs in yours. Just like in real hockey life, there are no guarantees when it comes to the development of a prospect.

[selne]

When i use the Save Game Editor i often see another size listed than in the game.
Is that the final numbers ?

[A9L3E]

When i use the Save Game Editor i often see another size listed than in the game.
Is that the final numbers ?

No, it's not. Example: I create a 12 year old player and give him height 185cm and weight 90kg, it will grow about 5 centimeters and 3 kilograms bigger than editor's numbers. Note: This was directional example, player can grow far bigger.
P.S. I apologize my bad English

[Hypnotist]

When i use the Save Game Editor i often see another size listed than in the game.
Is that the final numbers ?

What you are probably seeing is the player's current height/weight in cm &kg rather than inches & pounds. Everything behind the scenes is done in metrics and is simply converted for us Yanks. I think you can switch to metric views somewhere. I've never switched, so I can't tell you exactly where.

[joehelmer]

When i use the Save Game Editor i often see another size listed than in the game.
Is that the final numbers ?

What you are probably seeing is the player's current height/weight in cm &kg rather than inches & pounds. Everything behind the scenes is done in metrics and is simply converted for us Yanks. I think you can switch to metric views somewhere. I've never switched, so I can't tell you exactly where.

You change it in options -> Preferences in game and then you just change measurement from imperial to metric.