My team retarded?

Virauge · Post by **Virauge** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:53 am

I have my rosters patched for the latest NHL rosters. I am GM'ing the Montreal Canadiens. I have my lines setup to semi-realistic lines of the current NHL. I have my tactics set to per unit, I like to tweak with tactics. Here's my problem. I have my top 2 lines set to dump very often, I have each of the 3 forwards set to dump very often, which from my understanding overrides the unit tactic, and they don't dump the puck. Either way my top 6 forwards are set to dump very often, plus their unit is set to the same.

I usually watch my games in fast forward or very fast, but I'm 10 games in the season and my record is 1-3-6. I was noticing my team isn't getting many shots, so I decided to watch my 10th game in fast mode. Here's my problem, My team doesn't dump the puck, at all. Every time they get the puck they try to carry it across the blue line, and with smaller forwards they tend to get knocked off the puck and end up losing possession. I'm averaging 15 shot per game, while getting 30+ against. Most of the shots come off the counter-attack where it's 3-4 on 2. When my high pressure neutral zone coverage works it's great, rarely anyone gets past the blue line most often needing a dump in to do so. If my f'in fowards would dump the puck it'd easily cut my shots against down by 10-15 a game, but they won't dump the f'in puck.

I have the game updated to 3.0.4 as well. Can someone help?

selne · Post by **selne** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:42 pm

If you are trying to dump the puck into offensive zone as a strategy to avoid collisions and loosing possession
at the blue line, well, the AI sometimes tries the same - setting the first line to dump often
even with weaker players up in front - to balance the offensive tactic out
and to keep the puck in the offensive zone.

But everytime they try to do it against my team - thats a shootout for me!

Just trying to tell you that if you want a dump and chase game you really need a good tactic
and battle tested players (physical attributes esp. strengh, bravery, aggresivity, hitting) to make it work effectively.
Also keep in mind the pass tendency of your players as a hidden attribute.

I remeber playing with the Flames about one year ago to start only with only two players (J.Iginla and R. Esche)
with the aim to build a cup contender as cheap as possible.
So i brougth in as many tough guys (like laraque, tootoo, hollweg, brashear etc.) as i could get from waivers
and free agency and tried to find a good tactic that suits their abilities. No trading with other teams at all!

I can tell you it was the most exhausting season i ever had.
During the simulation of the games it felt like a heart attack, especiallly in the playoffs.

Yet in the first season i managed to win the Stanley Cup after the most exiting playoff series i ever had
winning 7 games 2-1 in a row! My team wouldn't score often but battled the game to the end.
Hollweg was the key of my toughies scoring about 30 goals in the regular season.

To sum up:
If you set your tactics to dump often you need to adjust other tactical settings and some toughness.
But your team won't dump only in critical situations.

Nurgle · Post by **Nurgle** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:16 pm

I also noticed to have success playing the dump and chase you have to have some quick forwards to retrieve the puck as well. Otherwise you are just giving the puck away every time you get past centre ice.

You could try fiddling a little with your offensive tactics and the way they break out and enter the zone. I don't have the game in front of me right now (stuck at work, grrr) but I can remember being able to change around how the wingers enter the zone, criss cross pattern... etc... fiddling with that made a big difference for my Leafs.

I don't know if its actually coded into the game, but it also seems to take time for tactic changes to actually be implemented successfully into games. Players appear to have a tendency to keep doing whatever they used to do... so through practicing it has to be drilled into them over weeks and months, if you want to change the way the team actually plays.

Or all of that could just be "how it looks" and have no accurate bearing whatsoever.

Virauge · Post by **Virauge** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:04 am

I understand the principal of making dump and chase work, which I'd work on with my lines and such. Your not understanding my problem. It's not that I can't retrieve the puck once it's dumped, it's that they don't dump at all.

I have my lines set to unit based so I can adjust my tactics according to the line setup. My top 3 lines ((A.Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Kovalev) (Tanguay, Koivu, S. Kostitsyn) (Higgins, Lang, Latendresse)) are set to dump very often for their line tactics and dump very often in the personal tactics. I watched a full game in fast action so I could see my tactics at work. When they rush across the red line going towards the offensive zone, they just try to carry the puck across the line. in a full game they never attempted to dump the puck once. Kinda odd that when set to dump very often they don't even attempt to dump it. 90% of the time the same thing happens, they cross the red line, then the blue line, get checked, opp. D-man passed to forwards, and I am stuck with a 3-2 which usually yields 1-2 shots against.

My forward lines are speedy enough to make the dump and chase system work half of the time at least. The worse case scenario is I don't retrieve the puck in which case I have 2 forwards going back to help my defense, preventing a great deal of odd man rushes against me. I have Zonal defense with hard backchecking and tight puck pressure. I have my tougher players ( Komisarek, Hamrlik, Laraque, Brisebois) set on more aggressive tactics and harder hitting and in the case of Laraque, berserk with very hard hitting. When I have all 5 of my players in the zone, the opp hardly gets a shot at the net and when they do it's usually an easy where the defense clear the rebound if there is one. My defense is top notch, the odd man rushes are killing me because my team won't dump the puck and their failed carry-ins give way too many odd man rushes. My defence is that good so far, I'm sporting a 96% penalty kill because when my team gets the puck they clear the zone, thus not giving up a bad rush.

Virauge · Post by **Virauge** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:05 am

Ok, I just set all my team to use the same tactics and watched a game, but wrote down some critical numbers.

I won 7-2 vs Colorado, but it was a fluke game, for some reason my forwards were able to carry the puck across the line often.

All of this is for 60 minutes, tactics set to very often dump ins:
Dump-ins by my team: 4 (Yeah, 4 dump ins in 60 minutes with dump ins set to very often)
Recovered dump ins: 3
Recovery resulting in goal: 1
Carry ins: 23
Carry ins where lost puck: 11
Goals against due to failed carry ins (odd-man rush against): 2
SOG for me: 24
SOG against: 18

Just these stats show if my team actually did what they were set to, they'd play alot better. I know not every game will be the same, but my team is fast enough to recover the puck, and skilled enough to score, but the turn overs from them not dumping the puck usually is the difference between winning and losing. I've had as many as 6 failed carry ins turn into goals against in 1 game. This game alone probably would have been a shutout if it wasn't for the tactics not working. I also have my forwards set to crisscross on the breakout, which they don't do often at all. I have my setting set to coach not coaching games, so it should be using my tactics, but my offense does it's own thing.

selne · Post by **selne** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:55 am

I have several ideas but little memories because i didn't use a dump and chase tactic for a long time.

But we could try to create one together just sharing our thoughts and results here.

Are you interested? Or do you want to create your own tactic with just some hints?

Virauge · Post by **Virauge** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:34 am

After changing my tactics from team to unit like 20 times out of frustration, I set it to unit and set my tactics up like I had them even tho they didn't work. I watched 3 games and for no good reason my team used my tactics. They worked perfectly. shots were 24-22 for me, 3-2 win. got caught on a bad line change for one against, other was a PP goal for them. My team dumps all the time now, most often recovering the puck.

I will take you up on your offer to help with tactics because my powerplay is, struggling, to put it nicely. 12 games in the season and it's 2.6%. From watching the games, my problem is puck control. My players either hold the puck too long or make a bad pass. I have my players with passing below 15 set to safe and my great passers (Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev, Markov) set to creative. I just switched to the umbrella powerplay a game ago and have only seen it in action 2 times the last game. I have my 2 best point shots (Hamrlik and Markov, both have slapshots of 16) set in the shooter position on different PP lines with shooting set to heavy. Still the same problem, can't keep the puck long enough to setup a point shot or even a decent shot.

Any suggestions for my PP?

selne · Post by **selne** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:14 am

Never had good results with save passing on PP.
Even the lesser talented players you should set passing to normal.

Powerplay is discussed in several topics on this forum.
Hope these links can help you.

http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=2261
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=2618
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=3381

Keep in mind thet most PP tactics are more effective with bigger players up in front.
Since i am trying to be succesful with smaller players I haven't really found
a good PP tactic so far that suits the 170lbs like players.

Virauge · Post by **Virauge** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:49 pm

Thanks. first 3 games since I followed the diamond PP advise, I have 1 PP goal in each game. Makes a huge difference when you don't have to go 0/6 and as much as 0/12 on the PP. Winning my games by 2 goals now instead of 1.