New York Islanders - Challenge 12 - Discussion Thread

thunderbug · Post by **thunderbug** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Wouldn't that cause pretty much everyone to have to restart?

Post by **Manimal** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:37 pm

darn you guys have traded a lot!
Here are my first trades, lol
Underachieving Jon Sim to San Jose for under-achieving Ryan Clowe( I know he's not as good in the game, but still)
naff Yan Danis to Chicago for Corey Crawford
Meyer and Park to Toronto for Jamal Mayers and Mike Van Ryn.

But the Isles till suck!

kuulapaa · Post by **kuulapaa** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:53 pm

I decided to try and participate in this challenge since I got a new work laptop and installed EHM in it. Not that I'm going to play at work but nearly everywhere else though...

We played only six pre-season games, because I didn't want to get more injuries. The exhibition games weren't all bad, we won four of them but got badly beaten by Panthers too (1-8).

We won the season opening game against Coyotes, but lost next four games before we were allowed to start trading players. I wanted to strengthen the defence and started making inquiries and proposions around. Finally I ended up making two trades, one with Blues (Bergenheim, Nielsen and Skinner for Brewer and Winchester) and one with Rangers (Joensuu and Pöck for Kalinin). These trades took place at Oct 18th. A week later Avalanche wanted to get rid of Ian Laperriére. He was (is) just the kind of player with skill, strength and determination I wanted to have in my team so I gave up 7th Round Draft pick for him. After these trades the rest of October was better, we went 4-2-0 and everything was fine.

November started poorly. We lost three straight games with same result, 0-3. In next two games we managed to score but lost them too. Then one win and five more losses. I tried (too?) many tactics and lineups, but nothing seemed to help.

In November I also made one more trade. I wanted to have some skilled youngsters in our roster and made another deal with Blues. We gave Freddy Meier and Joshua Bailey for B.J. Crombeen, Jonas Junland and Yan Stastny. I expect a lot especially from Junland.

In December Mike Sillinger came back after his long term injury. He played one game for us but I didn't see much use to him so I offered him to Kings. After negotiations we ended up trading Sillinger and Ben Walter for Denis Gauthier and Oscar Möller. Gauthier brings more size and strength in our defence and allows Junland to get some more experience in Bridgeport. Möller is a long shot, I am curious to see if he is ever going to play in NHL level.

After these trades I thought we were done. I know we have to get rid of some wages when RDP, Martinek and Witt returns, but besides that I thought our roster was ready. But it wasn't. On New Year's Day Sharks announced Joe Pavelski was available. He is young, skillful and promising player with another year in his contract, so I decided to give it a try. I offered Richard Park and Bruno Gervais for Pavelski and another youngster, Lukás Kaspar. They took the deal and so I managed to get two young players, both drafted in first round. And I also got rid of two rather reluctant players who didn't fit into my system (whatever it might be...). I would have wanted to keep Gervais, he is still young, but all the coaches evaluated him as overrated player, whose place is not in the lineup. So he got his chance in better team now, I wish him well.

Now we are done (I think) and here is our lineup in the beginning of January:

Hunter - Weight - Guerin
Hilbert - Comrie - Crombeen
Winchester - Stastny - Pavelski
Sim - Colliton - Laperriére

Brewer - Streit
Campoli - Kalinin
Gauthier - Sutton

Danis
(MacDonald)

Tambellini is out with mild concussion, Fritz plays now and then if he isn't banned. Right now, after that San Jose deal we have only six d-men in the roster, but there are eight more in Bridgeport so there's no need to worry about that. Witt is also practicing, but our physios warned that he still might have some problems concerning to his injury, so I'm not going to hurry him back.

I admit we have made a lot of trades, but I think I have been able to keep my team pretty realistic still. Most of my trades have been either long range building or short term strengthening, but the key players have stayed in the team.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:46 pm

harmonica wrote:Since the challenge just started, would it be possible to to implement a 12B, where there is a trade rule in effect? I'm sure many people would be interested in it and switch or do both.

Would anyone be interested in something like this? As one of the people who made the rules for this challenge, I definitely feel like I dropped the ball here. I didn't have the chance to test out these rules and as a result of that, the challenge has gotten a little too wide open. Even with the restrictions we've put into place, it still seems like a trading free for all. There has been too much trading and it's getting to be like the old challenges where everyone had the top players and we all won The Cup all the time. Personally, I didn't even get through the first season with my challenge team and I've lost interest because it got too easy and too crazy with trading. Anyone else?

I'm not saying that it's going to happen but who has dropped their challenge team already? Who is still playing? Who would like to restart? Just an informal poll.

Crayn · Post by **Crayn** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:03 pm

I think a little bit of a restriction would be perfectly fine.

mustardstew · Post by **mustardstew** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:46 pm

bruins72 wrote:
harmonica wrote:Since the challenge just started, would it be possible to to implement a 12B, where there is a trade rule in effect? I'm sure many people would be interested in it and switch or do both.
Would anyone be interested in something like this? As one of the people who made the rules for this challenge, I definitely feel like I dropped the ball here. I didn't have the chance to test out these rules and as a result of that, the challenge has gotten a little too wide open. Even with the restrictions we've put into place, it still seems like a trading free for all. There has been too much trading and it's getting to be like the old challenges where everyone had the top players and we all won The Cup all the time. Personally, I didn't even get through the first season with my challenge team and I've lost interest because it got too easy and too crazy with trading. Anyone else?

I'm not saying that it's going to happen but who has dropped their challenge team already? Who is still playing? Who would like to restart? Just an informal poll.

yes

mustardstew · Post by **mustardstew** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:48 pm

oh sorry - I did restart, after some cpu issues... and am still playing, but essentially for myself - only 8 games in, 3-5, but no trades... and I can't really see trading much until we get our guys back

Post by **joehelmer** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:50 pm

I'm still playing, I like the rules as they are. But I will most certainly just do one season, maybe two. So the rule change should be applied next challenge.

Post by **joehelmer** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:00 pm

I haven't trade much either, trying to put restrictions on myself when it comes to trading. I only trade for those who are available, and maybe add one if I think that my player is much better than the player who is available.
I'm in january and has only done one trade so far.

jbsnadb · Post by **jbsnadb** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:01 pm

I'm still playing, and trying to keep a core of this team as intact as I can. I've made maybe 10 or 11 deals through 1 2/3 seasons, and most have been to support that core of players.

I can see why batdad got so upset though. There is one team I looked over that has maybe a half dozen original players in the organization let alone on the NHL squad after a single season.

Looking through things, I've tinkered, but not blown up the farm. Through 56 games of season two:

(* Denotes player on Islanders roster)

G
Rick Dipietro*
Gerald Coleman* (signed as Young UFA in Season 1)
Peter Mannino
Kevin Poulin (returned to juniors)
Harri Sateri (acquired from SJ for Todd Marchant in offseason)

D
Jack Hillen
Mark Katic
Dustin Kohn*
Andrew MacDonald (IR)
Freddy Meyer*
Shaone Morrisonn* (acquired from WSH with Jannik Hansen for Brendon Witt in offseason)
Jeff Schultz* (acquired from WSH for Trent Hunter in offseason)
Brent Skinner
Simon Lacroix
Chris Lee (IR)
Radek Martinek
Jyri Niemi (returned to juniors)
Mark Streit*
Yannick Trembley* (acquired from OTT for Tomas Pock 2/2/07)

F
Sean Bentivoglio
Eric Godard* (acquired from PIT with Hal Gill for Chris Campoli and Joey MacDonald 2/23/07)
Maxim Grachev
Andy Hilbert*
Jesse Joensuu
Joel Rechlicz
Jeff Tambellini*
Keith Tkachuk* (acquired from STL for Bruno Gervais and Sean Bergenheim 12/1/06)
Kyle Brodziak* (acquired from EDM for Joshua Bailey 2/23/07)
Jeremy Colliton
Mike Comrie*
Rob Hennigar
Mike Iggulden
Craig MacDonald (acquired from CBJ with Toby Peterson for Andy Sutton)
Tomas Marchinko
Frans Neilson
Samuel Pahlsson* (UFA)
John Tavares (returned to juniors)
Nate Thompson
Ben Walter
Doug Weight*
Blake Comeau
Bill Guerin*
Kyle Okposo*
Jannik Hansen
Jamal Mayers* (acquired from TOR for 4th round pick in 2007)
Kirill Petrov
Igor Volkov*

I had also traded for Todd Marchant in season one straight up for Richard Park and unloaded Jon Sim on NJ for Pascal Rheaume. Both players at the times of their respective trades had AVRs in the neighborhood of 5.80 each.

Approaching the trade deadline of season 2, I have made a grand total of 11 trades. I am about to pull the trigger on a deal to send Volkov to the Flyers for Andrew Alberts to solidify the defensive side a bit.

Hope nobody minds

kuulapaa · Post by **kuulapaa** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:29 pm

I have nothing against rules and restrictions. But when I'm allowed to make trades, I can't help myself doing so, 'cause it is the most exciting part of the game for me. But anyhow, my answer is yes, there could be more restrictions.

Or would it be possible to somehow get bonus points, if you don't do so much trading? Or some kind of coefficient which is determined by how many original players you keep in your roster?

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:35 pm

kuulapaa wrote:I have nothing against rules and restrictions. But when I'm allowed to make trades, I can't help myself doing so, 'cause it is the most exciting part of the game for me. But anyhow, my answer is yes, there could be more restrictions.

Or would it be possible to somehow get bonus points, if you don't do so much trading? Or some kind of coefficient which is determined by how many original players you keep in your roster?

I hear you, kuulapaa! I was guilty of the same thing. In the past with things like NTNB, I was perfectly fine not trading but once I was allowed to, it got out of hand. I have some ideas to limit things a bit more though.

As for bonus points for limited trading... that could become a mess for Calv when he records all the stats. It's already a lot of work and I'm figuring he doesn't have the time for too much more. That being said, we should try to keep the rule ideas in the Challenge Feedback and question thread. That one is a good resource for when we're trying to figure out what works, what doesn't, and new ideas to implement.

Post by **joehelmer** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:46 pm

After reading the pages I missed over the weekend I'm now considering to drop out of the challenge as well. I'm not much of a trader as I want to try to keep my team intact, maybe using at most 2 or 3 trades per season. So now I will most likely continue playing with Islanders but not take part in this challenge. I mean it isn't fun to try to compete on a level with those who have made up to 10, maybe more, trades in a season. I'm all on Batdad's side in this and I feel bad for him that new guys jumps at him that he points this out. Sure you're new to the forums and the challenges but still consider that you're competing with others in the challenges!
And I'm afraid that if we use restrictions on trading people will complain about that as well.
Sorry for all this but I'm now so widdled off that I don't have any motivation for this challenge anymore, we'll see if I take part in next one.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:06 pm

Don't get discouraged, Joe. While I understand your frustration, I'm sure the majority of the challenge participants want to keep things competitive and fun. A few extra restrictions on trading shouldn't bother most. In fact, most of the people that have made an excessive number of trades haven't had the greatest records. So you've still got a good shot at things.

jbsnadb · Post by **jbsnadb** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:04 pm

I have traded more than some (and much less than others) and have a mediocre record. I knew this going in, since I usually don't coach games myself, and don't have the same tactical background as some.

A day before the trade deadline, there have been 23 trades, and I have been involved in 3:

RW Igor Volkov to PHL for D Andrew Alberts - depth winger for depth d-man

G Kevin Poulin to STL for D Jonas Junlund - intended to bolster my D in B'port, but didn't check to see that Junlund was waiver eligible. Hope I don't lose him by sending him down.

6th round pick in 2008 to NSH for G Robert Esche - I feel more comfortable having a bit more experience behind RDP as we make a run for the final playoff spot (1pt back with 2 games in hand).

jbsnadb · Post by **jbsnadb** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:06 pm

That's 23 trades in February, not all season.

Those are the only three deals I made since the trade window opened in October.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:07 pm

Those are pretty realistic looking trades, jbsnadb. I think the main complaint was about some of the cases where there were 3 or 4 players on each side of each trade and teams didn't even look similar to the one at the start of the season.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:16 pm

jbsnadb wrote:That's 23 trades in February, not all season.

Those are the only three deals I made since the trade window opened in October.

WOW! The league has been pretty active in trading in your game. In my current game, I just hit January 1st and there have been 14 trades in the league (none of them mine). I'm betting that if I looked at my challenge team it would be more though.

Anyhow, the kind of trades you are making are normal and not what the big stink was made over. We were seeing too many top 6 forward and top 4 defensemen trading hands. Anyhow, the rules are there and people are playing. So it doesn't matter much at the moment I guess.

Post by **joehelmer** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:23 pm

Yeah, those are good. The one that widdled me of was this one:

[quote=hartman]Start of Season 2 - Captain Highliner (GM - New York Islanders)

Homegrown Player (I will include this in my Records Posting) - Anton Lander
Player Budget - $51,000,000
Average Club Salary - $45,995,000

Starting Lineup
G - Rick Dipietro
G - Gerald Coleman

1st Line
LW - Andrew Ladd
C - Paul Stastny
RW - Eric Cole
LD - Scott Hannan
RD - Tim Gleason

2nd Line
LW - David Booth
C - Jeff Carter
RW - Trent Hunter
LD - Paul Mara
RD - Martin Skoula

3rd Line
LW - Garth Murray
C - Dave Scatchard
RW - Anthony Stewart
LD - Fedor Tyutin
RD - Alexei Semenov

4th Line
LW - Anton Lander (will likely move him up)
C - Samuel Pahlsson
RW - Jamal Mayers

Healthy Scratches - David Hale (D), Blair Betts (F)

Team Captain - Jeff Carter
Assistants - Scott Hannan, Paul Stastny [/quote]

Now I don't think he's still in the challenge but I don't know how much the other ones has traded.

thunderbug · Post by **thunderbug** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:27 pm

Well Joe, I wouldn't be too worried. My team doesn't have near that many trades. Like I said before I made 4 trades moved 4 players and one pick and got back 4 players. I also am currently leading the east. My point is we don't need to trade like that to be competitive.

mustardstew · Post by **mustardstew** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:32 am

I still think that he could've gotten the best goalie and at least a 2nd round pick for Dipietro and Hunter - I mean, DP isn't even top 10 in my game LOL....

Seriously, now that normalcy seems to be restored... maybe it's not as bad as I thought... only a couple got really out of hand?

Anywho, I going to continue playing, whether for myself or not, as I actually feel (thanks to Batdad's post about managing tactics) that I'm beginning to grasp tactics, and how to judge your players!!!

So I'm excited - i'll post to the challenge if it's still open - I mean, hell, I ended up with a point in the last one, right! LOL

Ah, binging on unrestricted EHM trading....

eric1985 · Post by **eric1985** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:23 am

bruins72 wrote:
harmonica wrote:Since the challenge just started, would it be possible to to implement a 12B, where there is a trade rule in effect? I'm sure many people would be interested in it and switch or do both.
Would anyone be interested in something like this? As one of the people who made the rules for this challenge, I definitely feel like I dropped the ball here. I didn't have the chance to test out these rules and as a result of that, the challenge has gotten a little too wide open. Even with the restrictions we've put into place, it still seems like a trading free for all. There has been too much trading and it's getting to be like the old challenges where everyone had the top players and we all won The Cup all the time. Personally, I didn't even get through the first season with my challenge team and I've lost interest because it got too easy and too crazy with trading. Anyone else?

I'm not saying that it's going to happen but who has dropped their challenge team already? Who is still playing? Who would like to restart? Just an informal poll.

I would definatley vote for a restart. I prefered the ntnb or trading restrictions. although i am one of those guys who has traded an insane amount. couldnt help myself once i found out i could. the oly islanders left on my team are the ones i signed from the unsigned prospect list.

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:32 am

I came to season 4, with 4 trades in season 1, 3 trades in season 2, 2 trades in season 3 and so far 1 trade in season 4, a bit much yes, with no significant results. I would deffinetly welcome trade restrictions, although I would probably not play, because I started a new game in Europe already. Maybe in late March or something. Trade restrictions would keep me on toes, it would be more fun, and of course more frustrating, but sounds good to me. Someone has to put these traders on a leash

Post by **joehelmer** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:39 am

Well, now that I'm at the trade deadline I have to admit that I went trading some as well, I got rid of the "dead meat", Guerin, Weight and Sutton. Now I'm even lower below the salary floor but I had to do something to try to save my balance which is red at the moment.

jbsnadb · Post by **jbsnadb** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:22 am

My balance has been in the red since January, so I feel there's no use worrying about it. I'm still $4m below the team-set budget and almost $10m below the salary cap.

They just need to raise the price of hot dogs, I'm doing everything I can.