Hockey Debate #1

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Hi all. I love the site and all the updates that come with it (another thank you to Lidas for all the work he has done). And it seems like there are a lot of people who frequent this site who have quite the knowledge of hockey. Knowledge that may be extended thanks to EHM.

So saying that, I thought I would come up with a new thread on here that I hope will continue in the future. After reading Bob McCown's McCown's Law: The 100 Greatest Hockey Arguments, I thought I would put some of these arguments and debates up for discussion on this forum. I am very interested to see the responses from all of you.

So here goes. The first debate question comes from the fact that there are quite a few countries represented on this site and I assume all of you are fairly big hockey fans if not full-on hockey-crazy nuts. The question is:
Where in the world are the best hockey fans found?

Of course there will be some heated debate over this but I want everyone to try and stay objective. So if you are from New Mexico, for example, there is no possible way that that state has the best hockey fans. I hope I haven't offended anyone from New Mexico but just being honest and objective. The floor is now open for debate. Also, when you post a response you can be more specific than the poll options allow you.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:14 pm

Maybe you should have just called this "Where are you from"? Honestly, most people are going to vote for where they are from. In all honesty, it's either Western or Eastern Canada (that could be a debate) but everywhere else really is just a matter of opinion, not fact. I'm from the US and I love hockey. I live in a suburb of Boston and I know there are many die-hard hockey fans around here. I don't have any misconceptions of where we rank amongst hockey fans though. It's a religion in Canada.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:20 pm

I say all of the above.

But for the sake of the thread, I voted Eastern Canada. That whole London peninsula area, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, etc... I've always seen them as the big-time hockey fans.

EDIT: The Northern United States, especially the Northeast is worth mentioning, too. Boston, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota. We're definitely in a separate category from the rest of the U.S. ...Still don't compare to Southern Ontario and Quebec, though.

Disclaimer: I've never left the Philadelphia area, so my opinion is purely media driven - stuff I see on TV/read on the inernet.

Post by **Jypfan92** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:49 pm

The craziest fans are from Latvia, if we are honest, but nobody can vote them.

alexob18 · Post by **alexob18** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:40 pm

Ontarians love our hockey

Post by **getzlaf15** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:48 pm

Jypfan92 wrote:The craziest fans are from Latvia, if we are honest, but nobody can vote them.

I totally agree. We're an amateur team with a couple of Latvians on our roster, and whenever we have a game, about 20 Latvians turn up cheering us on without fail!

It's hard to vote for someone without knowing the fans who you are voting for. So i can't really vote for someone.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:26 pm

Canadians are too quiet to be the best fans. You can eat, drink and sleep hockey but if all you do at the games is drink beer and cheer when there's a goal your not crazy enough to title yourself as the best. You also have to consider that Canadians get to see the best players in the world at the best facilities in the world in a country where hockey is basically shoved down your throat even if you don't like it.

I voted for Scandinavia because the first image I got in my mind when I read what the poll was about was crazy drunken Finns from some tiny town deep in the forest north of the Arctic circle.

In all honesty though, the best fans are probably found cheering for some obscure team in some tiny league in Eastern Europe. Maybe in Serbia or something.
Takes a lot of passion to willingly pay money to watch a rubbish team with rubbish players playing in a rubbish rink in a sport with no mainstream appeal what so ever.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:45 am

Franck wrote:Canadians are too quiet to be the best fans. You can eat, drink and sleep hockey but if all you do at the games is drink beer and cheer when there's a goal your not crazy enough to title yourself as the best. You also have to consider that Canadians get to see the best players in the world at the best facilities in the world in a country where hockey is basically shoved down your throat even if you don't like it.

I voted for Scandinavia because the first image I got in my mind when I read what the poll was about was crazy drunken Finns from some tiny town deep in the forest north of the Arctic circle.

In all honesty though, the best fans are probably found cheering for some obscure team in some tiny league in Eastern Europe. Maybe in Serbia or something.
Takes a lot of passion to willingly pay money to watch a rubbish team with rubbish players playing in a rubbish rink in a sport with no mainstream appeal what so ever.

This is actually one reason why I'd say they are the best hockey fans. They're too fixated on the game at hand to get drunk or obnoxious.

In fact, this is one thing that really sets European and North American sports fans apart. North American fans seem to be content just peacefully enjoying the game, whereas Europeans seem to need to get completely obnoxious, and start riots.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:03 am

B. Stinson wrote:
Franck wrote:Canadians are too quiet to be the best fans. You can eat, drink and sleep hockey but if all you do at the games is drink beer and cheer when there's a goal your not crazy enough to title yourself as the best. You also have to consider that Canadians get to see the best players in the world at the best facilities in the world in a country where hockey is basically shoved down your throat even if you don't like it.

I voted for Scandinavia because the first image I got in my mind when I read what the poll was about was crazy drunken Finns from some tiny town deep in the forest north of the Arctic circle.

In all honesty though, the best fans are probably found cheering for some obscure team in some tiny league in Eastern Europe. Maybe in Serbia or something.
Takes a lot of passion to willingly pay money to watch a rubbish team with rubbish players playing in a rubbish rink in a sport with no mainstream appeal what so ever.
This is actually one reason why I'd say they are the best hockey fans. They're too fixated on the game at hand to get drunk or obnoxious.

In fact, this is one thing that really sets European and North American sports fans apart. North American fans seem to be content just peacefully enjoying the game, whereas Europeans seem to need to get completely obnoxious, and start riots.

You must have never experienced passion in your entire life. I am sorry for you.

A few clips that should change your mind.

Now I am sure some things you'll see there are objectionable (such as the Ascoli fans in one of the clips using fascist imagery), but you have to admit that they all contain some pretty impressive work of pure passion.

That Celtic clip in particular sends shivers down my spine everytime I watch it, and I've seen it like 100 times. But ofcourse you'll find it "obnoxious".

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:31 am

Well, sorry for the double post but I was going to edit this in but I can't because of the stupid 15 minute rule.

The reason for why I didn't put in any hockey clips in there is because I really don't know enough about Finnish, German, Russian, Czech, Slovak etc hockey enough to find all the gems, and because I really can't think of any Swedish hockey team that has fans that are good enough at that stuff to make for good youtube-videos.

I'd also like to point out that these people spend their own money and their own time to come up with all these things, it isn't something that has been choreographed by some marketing executive or similar like it is when there's card displays and such at North American sports venues.

Post by **Manimal** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:58 am

I don't like fans. Most are obnoxious homers

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:52 am

See? Already there is a bit of heated debate going on. All in good fun of course.

First off, it shouldn't be a "where are you from" question because that would be completely subjective and too homer-like. I am from Guelph, Ontario and cheer (kind of) for the...wait for it...Leafs (commence groaning). However, I know for a fact that hockey fans from Ontario are not the best, not by a long shot. They have their moments of course. But the best fans, I believe, come from either Western Canada (especially in Manitoba and Saskatchewan) or Minnesota.

Thanks for the clips Franck. I do, every so often, peruse YouTube and see clips like this. The best ever has to be Fenerbahce out of Turkey. Some crazy stuff there. However, soccer fans are inherently different than hockey fans. Heck I remember going to a college football game that was played in Toronto (the International Bowl by the way) and the fans from Western Michigan University stood the whole game and made a heck of a lot of noise. Quite impressive, especially being in a domed stadium which made it even louder. Fans of all sports are definitely different. Hockey fans aren't the loudest or most insane or have the best team cheers but hey, it beats baseball!

Post by **B. Stinson** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:16 am

Franck wrote:
B. Stinson wrote:
Franck wrote:Canadians are too quiet to be the best fans. You can eat, drink and sleep hockey but if all you do at the games is drink beer and cheer when there's a goal your not crazy enough to title yourself as the best. You also have to consider that Canadians get to see the best players in the world at the best facilities in the world in a country where hockey is basically shoved down your throat even if you don't like it.

I voted for Scandinavia because the first image I got in my mind when I read what the poll was about was crazy drunken Finns from some tiny town deep in the forest north of the Arctic circle.

In all honesty though, the best fans are probably found cheering for some obscure team in some tiny league in Eastern Europe. Maybe in Serbia or something.
Takes a lot of passion to willingly pay money to watch a rubbish team with rubbish players playing in a rubbish rink in a sport with no mainstream appeal what so ever.
This is actually one reason why I'd say they are the best hockey fans. They're too fixated on the game at hand to get drunk or obnoxious.

In fact, this is one thing that really sets European and North American sports fans apart. North American fans seem to be content just peacefully enjoying the game, whereas Europeans seem to need to get completely obnoxious, and start riots.
You must have never experienced passion in your entire life. I am sorry for you.

A few clips that should change your mind.

Now I am sure some things you'll see there are objectionable (such as the Ascoli fans in one of the clips using fascist imagery), but you have to admit that they all contain some pretty impressive work of pure passion.

That Celtic clip in particular sends shivers down my spine everytime I watch it, and I've seen it like 100 times. But ofcourse you'll find it "obnoxious".

No, I know what sports passion is. I know Europe dominates the world when it comes to being a sports fan. As a novice football fan, particularly English football, I've been one of the biggest critics to how boring we are over here compared to Europe.

However, I also know that for every passionate European fan there's one clueless, obnoxious, drunken, fascist, racist, riot-starting pig.

But that's all beside the point, and my original point still stands: Just because Canadian fans don't jump around like monkeys can't possibly disqualify them as the best hockey fans. They still know and understand 100 times more about hockey than the average hockey fan.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:25 am

bossman wrote:See? Already there is a bit of heated debate going on. All in good fun of course.

First off, it shouldn't be a "where are you from" question because that would be completely subjective and too homer-like. I am from Guelph, Ontario and cheer (kind of) for the...wait for it...Leafs (commence groaning). However, I know for a fact that hockey fans from Ontario are not the best, not by a long shot. They have their moments of course. But the best fans, I believe, come from either Western Canada (especially in Manitoba and Saskatchewan) or Minnesota.

Thanks for the clips Franck. I do, every so often, peruse YouTube and see clips like this. The best ever has to be Fenerbahce out of Turkey. Some crazy stuff there. However, soccer fans are inherently different than hockey fans. Heck I remember going to a college football game that was played in Toronto (the International Bowl by the way) and the fans from Western Michigan University stood the whole game and made a heck of a lot of noise. Quite impressive, especially being in a domed stadium which made it even louder. Fans of all sports are definitely different. Hockey fans aren't the loudest or most insane or have the best team cheers but hey, it beats baseball!

Yeah, the Turks are pretty insane, I'd recomend that you watch a coulpe of clips from Argentina though, probably the only country that can give the Turks a serious run for the money

Not really, in Russia for instance, the people who go to see CSKA, Spartak and Dynamo play football (soccer to you guys from across the pond) will be the same people as those who go and see those clubs play hockey, leading to a similar atmosphere at the games. How much the fan cultures between the sports overlap depends on the location, in some places (generally where there is multisport clubs like in Moscow) it will be a lot and in other places it will be very little.

I would like to point out that NHL fans can be quite impressive at times, like certain teams during play-offs or the Blackhawks during the national anthem

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:27 am

B. Stinson wrote:
Franck wrote:
B. Stinson wrote: This is actually one reason why I'd say they are the best hockey fans. They're too fixated on the game at hand to get drunk or obnoxious.

In fact, this is one thing that really sets European and North American sports fans apart. North American fans seem to be content just peacefully enjoying the game, whereas Europeans seem to need to get completely obnoxious, and start riots.
You must have never experienced passion in your entire life. I am sorry for you.

A few clips that should change your mind.

Now I am sure some things you'll see there are objectionable (such as the Ascoli fans in one of the clips using fascist imagery), but you have to admit that they all contain some pretty impressive work of pure passion.

That Celtic clip in particular sends shivers down my spine everytime I watch it, and I've seen it like 100 times. But ofcourse you'll find it "obnoxious".
No, I know what sports passion is. I know Europe dominates the world when it comes to being a sports fan. As a novice football fan, particularly English football, I've been one of the biggest critics to how boring we are over here compared to Europe.

However, I also know that for every passionate European fan there's one clueless, obnoxious, drunken, fascist, racist, riot-starting pig.

Not really, most places it will be less than 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10000, in certain places though and with certain teams it will be a lot more common though.

In the North Americans defence, you are really held back from being really passionate by rules and regulations at your stadiums and arenas, I remember I had a fair few laughs at how incredibly restrictive the rules about what you could and couldn't do at the Winter Classic last year was, if the same rules applies to most games I fully understand why you're "boring".
Hard to make songs, use flags and create elaborate card-displays if you risk being thrown out for doing so.

Post by **joehelmer** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:46 am

I think Canadians are the best hockey fans as earlier said, they live for hockey. Sure Europeans are good too, but this passion feels like it's only there when it's a game.

Franck, you said that you didn't found any good videos for Swedish hockey fans, here's one for you with 1500 people singing, is that enough?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkaXGmZm_B0

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:40 am

That's a pretty good vid there Joe

Didn't really bother with looking after one though, as my interest in Swedish hockey is pretty much 0, which puts my knowledge about fan culture in Swedish hockey at about the same level. All I know is that Goa Gubbar of Frölunda are really lame.

Post by **A9L3E** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:32 am

http://www.jokerifanit.net/n/?m=galleri ... type=video

http://www.jokerifanit.net/n/?m=galleri ... type=video

And that first is an away game and the match is over when there's 2:24 left in video.

Post by **McQwak** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:16 am

This is really hard question. I agree with B.Stinson including his disclaimer

On the other hand I think that canadians are often too blinded to see the reality. But that's something what hardcore fans simply have to be...

Post by **joehelmer** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:40 pm

I have another video, from the playoff in 2008. I was like in the middle of the fans with some friends of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tageqYzhKw

selne · Post by **selne** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:50 pm

joehelmer wrote:I have another video, from the playoff in 2008. I was like in the middle of the fans with some friends of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tageqYzhKw

I so recognized you there!

Post by **joehelmer** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:00 pm

selne wrote:
joehelmer wrote:I have another video, from the playoff in 2008. I was like in the middle of the fans with some friends of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tageqYzhKw
I so recognized you there!

I guessed so, I'm the one singing....oh wait.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:17 pm

Philadelphia fans are the best sports fans in the world. At least the ones that live in Philadelphia. They are absolutely pure bread fans of their teams. Noone else does anything right, there teams do nothing wrong. And they are rabid about it. And sometimes, spill over into idiocy like Euro soccer fans used to in England and other areas.

Now...as for hockey fans. The most knowledgeable hockey fans live in Canadian cities in towns. Period. No question that these fans know more about the game of hockey than anywhere else in the world. There is no way a SPORTS radio station anywhere else in the world could discuss one sport ALL DAY, ALL YEAR long even in August and survive. In Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and MOntreal...this is not only possible...it is done.

Every single things is examined, cross examined, cross sectioned, taken apart, put back together. I mean I heard a discussion the other day about what Steve Bernier ate for lunch, and people were actually arguing about whether that was a good pre game meal. It is insane how much it is dissected and liked.

The reason our hockey fans in this country are not "over the top" like in other countries...simple, you get cut off and kicked out if you even appear intoxicated. At $200 at least for two tickets, $10 per beer....who the heck can afford it. So we behave. And we know immediately when our team plays well. Unlike in Philly, Canadian hockey fans are both very critical of their teams (with each other...then defend to the death to fans of other teams), and VERY VERY passionate. Look at the deal with Luongo. Canucks fans will carve him up with each other...but then should anyone DARE speak a bad word about him from outside the little CANUCK world...Canuckleheads will go after them en masse...in a hurry.

Toronto hockey fans though win the award...They love their team, they root for their team, they criticize their team, they write jokes about their team...and they still pay $100000000 for season tickets and fill the building over and over even though not only can they not win, they cannot score the first goal of a game. Congrats to Ontario on winning the award from me for the best fans out there. ANd also the most obnoxious and masochistic

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:26 pm

batdad wrote:Philadelphia fans are the best sports fans in the world. At least the ones that live in Philadelphia. They are absolutely pure bread fans of their teams. Noone else does anything right, there teams do nothing wrong. And they are rabid about it. And sometimes, spill over into idiocy like Euro soccer fans used to in England and other areas.

I really can't stand Philadelphia Eagles fans (just a generalization... not each and every one) though. They can be obnoxious!

Post by **philou21** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:34 pm

I vote for the Eastern Canada but in fact i would prefer the ''Whole Canada'' final point. It's not necessary for me to explain it as Batdad wonderfully done it. Personnaly i do think in Canada we are the most hadcore fan of hockey. It's not in every country that you have a countdown till the trade deadline or the first July and some people asking their job to have a day off to follow it.