Worst NHL GM

[Thundercleese]

I'm sure this one will get all the armchair (or computer desk chair) GMs going. And since we're ALL armchair GMs (why else would we be playing EHM?) I hope to see some venom! We all know there's someone out there any one of us could do a better job than, who is it?

My nod for worst GM is Dave Nonis. This guy has made a mockery of the Canucks in less time than it did for him to cry when he got the job. Here are the reasons why:

1) Luongo. I'm not necessarily saying he was the wrong choice for the job. I AM saying that he's getting WAY too much money for what he's done in his career. Great goalies win games for teams, sometimes they even get them into the playoffs (cough, Kiprusoff, cough). He's got talent, I can't deny that, but SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS is absurd! I admit that I have a personal bias about this one because it's going to drive up the cost for Sutter to resign Kipper when the time comes and it will almost certainly cost us Iginla to do so, but still. Seven million dollars for a guy that's never had a record above .500 until last year? I can think of only one word to describe that and I can't say it here so I'll use my next favourite word for situations like this: asinine.

2) Anson Carter. Nonis was so busy spending money on Luongo that he forgot about the only guy that has ever been consistently excellent with the Sedin twins. Burke tried for YEARS to find a guy to match up with the twins to no avail. Carter walks in, scores 35 goals, gives the Canucks a second line that could arguably be a first line on many other teams....and can't get resigned. It's not like he ended up costing much either.

3) Taylor Pyatt. The ostensible replacement for Carter had 6 goals all of last season. Granted, he's already topped that but it's a pretty limp-wristed (and desperately hopeful) move to pick up a 6 goal scorer to fill in for a 35 goal scorer.

4) Jan Bulis. Seems to me this guy was intended to replace Bertuzzi, or possibly Carter, depending on training camp. Who is this guy anyhow? How does he keep getting signed by anyone? Talk about overrated, Bulis has been a straight bust. Way to bring inconsistency to a team, Nonis.

5) The Defense. Ohlund and Salo are great. Mitchell is rugged and good at what he does. But it seemed to me that Nonis thought that Luc Bourdon was the next Dion Phaneuf and would dominate with crushing hits and mistake-free defensive zone play. Good call, Dave. Lukas Krajicek? Bryan Allen was just hitting his prime, too. You'd think a guy would work harder at putting together a reliable defensive corps considering the new attitude of the team is supposed to be defensive-minded.

6) The Cap. He's gotten the Canucks so close to the salary cap that Marek Malik would bump his head on it if he were still with the team. You can't spend that much and have the record Vancouver's had so far, there's just no way to justify it.

7) Brian Burke. Burke must laugh himself to sleep every night when he looks at what he's done with Anaheim and then looks at what Vancouver's become.

[Minstrel]

Maybe not in the league as they've been fired but the moves by Philly coming into the Cap era going big tough and slow when the league was talking about bringing the speed back to the game by taking out clutching and grabbing is something they are still paying for. It killed them last year and has made them a laughingstock this year, and the new management's first aquisition? Todd Fedoruk! So you have to wonder if things have actually changed? Boston made the same kind of grand miscalculation and is still paying for it having only compounded their problems through questionable trades and signings.

Looking back though I'd have to say it was a vast miscalculation for Philly to bring in Forsberg who every GM wants but also has to know he can't stay healthy and will burn you at the most important time. Why wouldn't you give Carter or Richards the chance to prove themselves last year? Instead your first line features Mike Knuble? Seriously? With Primeau expected back and signing Forsberg AND Nedved where exactly did you plan to get time for Richards or Carter? Maybe they would have benefitted from playing with the teams better more veteran players instead of being put on a third line with each other?? Then you grossly overpay for Gagne so that it puts your butt so firmly up against the Cap that Minnesota steals Kim Johnsson from you, one of the only members of your defense that can actually skate their way out of a paper bag (Hatcher and Rathje).

Boston has been no better and they continue to embarrass themselves (sorry Bruin fans) when they make moves like giving this big long contract to Tim Thomas who is old and unproven at best and then over-relying on Toivonen to be The Man when he was completely unproven as well. The only fairly proven guy though you have to talk down and eventually pretty much give away to Toronto! What the Dickens? Now you've had to send Toiv down to the AHL to get his game and head together because you can't risk him staying with the team and getting beaten like the proverbial rental mule every night. Man that's embarrasing; especially given how well Raycroft has played in TO.

They had a lot more pressing needs than burdening themselves with the extravagant defenseman's contract of Chara so I seriously question that move when it means talk of having to deal Glen Murray because you can't afford him and have to deal him before he walks and/or while he has value. This all of course makes no mention of gettting next to nothing for one of the best players in the game who only went on to chalk up triple digit assist figures and bring San Jose's season back from the dead. Yikes...

These are the kinds of things that got the Hawks to the sorry state they are in now; they take years even if you don't keep compounding your mistakes to recover from.

[Shadd666]

My "vote" is for Dave Nonis too. Mainly for the same things that Thundercleese mentionned, especially Luongo, Carter and the defense.

And if you take a look at the big names in and out at the Nucks from last season, you'll see that they lost Jovanovski, Beruzzi and Carter, and only Luongo in. The Bertuzzi for Luongo trade was, according to me, a good one. But giving 7M$ to Luongo was nothing but a mistake that cost them Anson Carter, at least. With less money on Luongo, they should have re-sign Carter and maybe a good D-man to minimize the loss of Jovanovski.

But the Bruins weren't really better... Loosing Thornton and Samsonov last year, Raycroft in the off-season, and only Chara brought in. Maybe not the best way to win...

[Minstrel]

Of course we can give a special mention to the Isles for the owner going out and negotiating a 10 year deal for his goalie thoroughly tying the hands of the team and anyone they might want to call a GM for the next decade; if anyone will take the position now knowing the owner will go crazy and over your head any time he feels like it and completely screw you over. Nice work there.

[E5150_ca]

Pat Quinn.

I still hate him for tradeing away so many youngsters years later.

[flea]

Boston has been no better and they continue to embarrass themselves (sorry Bruin fans) when they make moves like giving this big long contract to Tim Thomas who is old and unproven at best and then over-relying on Toivonen to be The Man when he was completely unproven as well. The only fairly proven guy though you have to talk down and eventually pretty much give away to Toronto! What the Dickens? Now you've had to send Toiv down to the AHL to get his game and head together because you can't risk him staying with the team and getting beaten like the proverbial rental mule every night. Man that's embarrasing; especially given how well Raycroft has played in TO.

They had a lot more pressing needs than burdening themselves with the extravagant defenseman's contract of Chara so I seriously question that move when it means talk of having to deal Glen Murray because you can't afford him and have to deal him before he walks and/or while he has value. This all of course makes no mention of gettting next to nothing for one of the best players in the game who only went on to chalk up triple digit assist figures and bring San Jose's season back from the dead. Yikes...

Yeps, but all of the moves u are mentioning here, except the signing of Chara, go to the count of "Mr. Lets trade away Joe Thornton" O'Connell!!!
He really did a awful job in the cap area, letting go away very good players like Knuble, Nylander or Gochar and replaced them with Zhamnov, Isbister and Leetch (not that I think Leetch isnt good, but it wasnt the right time to come to Boston when he signed).
Then he traded away Thornton for nearly nothing (all the three players we got in return are in his last year of contract and its gonna be hard to resign them!!!), Samsonov and Raycroft and signed a 32 year old goalie who only played one good season in the NHL for three years and 3.3 millions!!!

For me there is absolutely no question that O'Connell was one of the worst GM's in the cap area...if not the worst!!!

His replacement, Chiarelli, is doing a very good job IMHO with the signings he has done!!! Savard and Chara are worth their big contracts, he resigned Boyes, Alberts and Bergeron in the offseason and now he got a potential 30 goals per year LW in Stana Chistov (I really hope he plays like he did for me in the game, lol!!!) for a third round draft pick that he obtained in trading away Boynton for Mara. Then he brought in a good and experimented coach in Lewis.
Its true that the B's arent playing right now the way we B's fans are hoping, but I really think this is a two-three years proyect with all the promising young players we have, and we have to be patient...but as now Iam happy with Chiarelli!!

[flea]

Uppps...I think I pressed the button twice, sorry for that!!!

....now that I think about it: Raycroft for Tukka Rask was Chiarellis first move...but Iam not sure there....

[Forsberg]

Ok lots of good stuff here and way much to reply to heh, but lets try .

First of all Ministrel, Forsberg has NOT been phillys problem main neither last or this season, sure he has been injured but like you said they have Richards/Carter, so should be able to step up and they havent!. Besides you need guys like him mentor kids like that, just look at what he did for Drury for instance. He gives them a chance for the cup in the playoffs IF they had a defense, which it is painfully obvious that is where the real problem lies. Personally have to be honest and say I liked Clarkes moves going into the cap world, it is easy to look back and say oh no no all wrong, but who knew how the new nhl would be?.

Flea yes Thornton trade is generally considered horrible and with good reason, but Stuart/Sturm had 1.5 seasons left on the contracts, Big Joe had 3. Minor stuff but they werent Ufa to be and they are good players, lets just hope they can resign them otherwise this is gonna look real ugly in the history books. Stuart is welcome in a avs uniform after the season btw .
Bruins goaltending is a mess, but lots of ppl considered Toivonen ready to be a starter and trading Raycroft for a prospect like Rask is a good deal nontheless. Raycroft a Calder winner who had a really bad season last year, well the deal makes sense, but ofc as always those things can come back to haunt you.

As for the Canucks just point and laugh muhahaha.

[Thundercleese]

I think the biggest problem with Boston is obviously the ownership. Sinden and Jacobs, who clearly don't know what they're doing, are getting involved with hockey people who sort of know what they're doing. It's hard to fault the GM when you know that he's got (at least) two hands up his puppet-hole (that's not supposed to sound dirty, but I couldn't think of another way). Thornton wasn't producing as expected in Boston, and while I can't say that it was a smart deal, Sturm and Stuart are above average players and if the Bruins are smart enough to keep them around they'll be able to build around them. The thing about the Bruins is they have no identity. When you think of them do you think of a high-powered offense? Stingy defense? Blazing speed? Aggressive defense? No, no, no and no. They don't know what they want to be when they grow up and it's hurting them now.

Philly SHOULD be a good hockey team. They have plenty of talent, young and old, throughout the lineup. Hatcher is one of my least favourite hockey players of all time, so signing him is ALWAYS a mistake. Still, slower defensemen have shown that they can do the job if they're smart about it (Hatcher is clearly not smart). The Flyers could get away with being one of those teams that trades chances and is unafraid to forget the defensive zone in order to score, I think. More than anything, they're missing Keith Primeau. Forsberg is NOT a captain. When they guy wearing the C is talking about retirement a quarter way through the season you know you're screwed. It doesn't seem like there's anyone on that lineup that is willing to step up into a leadership role and hold other players accountable. Leadership is such a key aspect of a hockey club that Cold-FX/Lay's/Ford/McDonald's and Mark Messier/Wayne Gretzky/Bobby Orr are giving out monthly awards to recognize it! Seriously, though, leadership is key.

I think we forgot about Larry Pleau of the St.Louis Blues! "Hmm...my team sucks, it's in a 'rebuilding' phase right now. Maybe I'll bring in some overpriced, past-their-prime veterans to make it look like we're trying and then I'll hope to win the draft lottery again." They're going to be bottom feeders for a few seasons yet, I suspect.

[Thundercleese]

Oh, I almost forgot! Nonis added yet another screw-up to his list of GM insufficiency. He tried to sign Patrick Colombe, a young offensive-defensemen with pretty high potential, to an NHL contract--he had an AHL contract with Manitoba that allowed him to be called up and to attend training camp for the Canucks. Nonis offered him a contract with a signing bonus of $15,000! "Wait!" I hear you saying, "is that supposed to be really high like Luongo? that doesn't seem so high to me!" It's not! The average player in that situation gets a signing bonus around $150,000, and those go to guys who are still MILES away from NHL-ready! Nonis offered Colombe ONE TENTH what he should have! Colombe and his agent are widdled, and say that they're not going to forget being low-balled by the Canucks, which pretty much means it's either going to cost them ten times what it should to sign him, or they're going somewhere else when the time comes. Way to go, Nonis!

[B. Stinson]

Right now, I'm gonna say Paul Holmgren. I know he hasn't done much yet... but that's actually my first problem. Our team flat-out sucks, and they have been that way since pre-pre-season. Clarke did nothing, and is now out of the way, which should open the flood gates for the changes that have to be made... but Homer is not making them. And my second problem comes in with the changes he has made - we got Todd Fedoruk... again. Why in the world did we even consider getting him back? If anything, Anaheim should have given us a draft pick, just to take him. Did we not pay attention when he was with us before; did we not realize that Fedoruk = Brashear, and Brashear was a huge waste of space?

[Thundercleese]

I'm not allowed to say widdled? By which I mean "urined" or some such?

Yeah, language filters... we don't have many though. I'm not a big fan of the *** look though so I changed it up a bit

[Forsberg]

Surprised Mike Barnett hasnt been mentioned yet, but it is really late and I am drunk so ill spare you the comments .

[batdad]

I agree on many of the Nonis comments. However,.... not on CARTER. Dude wanted $2.5 million to stand in front of a net with his stick on the ice. Best move ever not signing him. Dan and Hank made him. Not the other way. All you have to do is see that Taylor Pyatt has 7 goals already...1 more than all of last season, to see it does not matter. Carter...he would have 4 or 5, because two of Pyatt's goals involved stickhandling...something Anson cannot do.
Coulombe thing...not going to amount to much. My guess...typo from Nonis's soon to be in big trouble secretary.

And sorry but unloading a bonehead for more than a draft pick like Dave did with Bert...not a bad idea.

Worst GM's in order

1. Larry Pleau---Wonder why.
2. Anyone who is in Chicago...but um not really GM fault
3. Anyone in Philadelphia
4. Doug MacLean- No QUESTION! Sergei Fedorov??? what was he thinking..or was he?
5. Mike Barnett/Wayne Gretzky--Yeah Mike does it all by himself. And it is sunny in Vancouver all winter long.
6. Muckler--Hanging on too long to his pathetic captain.

honorable mention to GARTH 15 year contracts Snow.


Purposely leaving out Nonis, Shero, Chiarelli, Snow at this point cause their teams have not had a chance to prove themselves yet. Plus Shero...well unless he trades Malkin or Crosby..how bad can things get?

Nonis is included in this because he never made any significant moves with the team until this past off season. Last season's team was basically Brian Burke's...hmmm Brian looks good now in Anaheim doesn't he? Give Dave a chance. Not sure about his coach choice though, and will smack Dave hard if Canucks fail to make playoffs.

[E5150_ca]

honorable mention to GARTH 15 year contracts Snow.

Snow had absolutly NOTHING to do with that contract.

[Thundercleese]

We might not see Pyatt with the twins at all anymore if Naslund keeps up with them. They make a great top line but now there's only one big threat whereas there once were two...Carter got himself open and finished his chances. I'm not saying that he could do it by himself, but there's a reason Burke never found anyone to play with the Sedins; it takes a certain instinct about where to be and when to be there that apparently not too many players have. 2.5 million isn't unreasonable for a 35 goal scorer and I think Nonis would've happily paid it if he hadn't doled out so much to Luongo.

Bertuzzi definitely had to go, but it's hard to judge that trade because of who was involved. It seemed pretty clear that Luongo was on the way out of Florida either way, so you could say that it was a good move by Martin to get more than a draft pick for him, as opposed to losing him to free agency. In the end, that trade benefitted both teams (until Bertuzzi went down with that back thing....I thought he was gonna have a huge season based on how he started out), so I can't fault either GM for that move, just what happened afterwards.

[Minstrel]

honorable mention to GARTH 15 year contracts Snow.

Snow had absolutly NOTHING to do with that contract.

True; though the signing which was negotiated exclusively by the team owner was what basically gave Snow the job because it was such a clear "Anyone with an ounce of sense should have nothing to do with this organization" signal. So he had nothing to do with arranging the contract but the contract being arranged was what landed him the gig

[Shadd666]

2. Anyone who is in Chicago...but um not really GM fault

Just change the owner, and i'm sure the team will be better...

[Minstrel]

2. Anyone who is in Chicago...but um not really GM fault

Just change the owner, and i'm sure the team will be better...

No real complaints about the team actually; they just beat Anaheim in the shootout and are stuffed to the gills with one f the best farm systems in the league

Anyhow, the owner will only change when Wirtz dies and then? His son Peter takes over. Peter is only in his 40s so the Wirtzian Dynasty is set to reign for at least another 30 years. That is unless prohabition comes back and the Wirtzes go bankrupt and have to sell the team.... otherwise time until a possible ownership change is better measured in decades than years.

[Thundercleese]

Hopefully Peter is a little more....'progressive' than his father.

[Minstrel]

He's said for example he agrees with his father on not showing home games on TV in Chicago... but this isn't a worst owners thread so we should get back to the GM topic

Mike Smith: Bryan McCabe for Alexander "The Walking Wound" Karpovtsev and hiring an ideal "New NHL" coach (Suhonenen) with a roster full of muckers and grinders about 8 years ahead of the term being penned were a couple of real disasters that were 100% his idea; most of the rest of his "term" was hopelessly meddled with by Brian Sutter, Bill Wirtz and Bob Puhlford so I hold them not Smith responsible as Smith was the one to get Ruutu signed when Wirtz didn't want to pay him.

[flea]

Flea yes Thornton trade is generally considered horrible and with good reason, but Stuart/Sturm had 1.5 seasons left on the contracts, Big Joe had 3. Minor stuff but they werent Ufa to be and they are good players, lets just hope they can resign them otherwise this is gonna look real ugly in the history books. Stuart is welcome in a avs uniform after the season btw .
Bruins goaltending is a mess, but lots of ppl considered Toivonen ready to be a starter and trading Raycroft for a prospect like Rask is a good deal nontheless. Raycroft a Calder winner who had a really bad season last year, well the deal makes sense, but ofc as always those things can come back to haunt you.

Yes, I think I misswrote that (thats the problem when u try to write in a language u dont dominate, lol)...I wanted to say that Stuart, Sturm and I think also Primeau are now in their last year of contract and its gonna be hard to resign them for sure.
Right now the goaltending situation in Boston is really a mess. Thomas isnt the man we are looking for when u ask for a NHL starter and Toivonen isnt the same he was before his injury....but as I said, the Raycroft for Rask deal was one of Chiarellis first moves as GM in Boston and that trade was considered a good one. Lets wait and see.

Thundercleese: I cant agree with the statement that Joe wasnt producing in Boston. In playoffs, yes, but definitely not in the regular season. The problem was that with both O'Connell and Thornton in town...one had to go, simply as that!!
As far as I can tell 99% of the people in Boston were really surprised when "the trade" went through. Sad day for B's fans that day!!!
LOL, specially for me...just some month before that trade I "imported" a player jersey from Boston to Spain per e-bay...guess who's name and number was on the jersey....u got it Joe Thornton's 19!!!

[joehelmer]

LOL, specially for me...just some month before that trade I "imported" a player jersey from Boston to Spain per e-bay...guess who's name and number was on the jersey....u got it Joe Thornton's 19!!!

You will have something to remember in a couple of years though.

[Thundercleese]

I didn't say Thornton wasn't producing, I said he wasn't producing AS EXPECTED. There's a pretty big difference there--Boston expected him to be the player he's shown hiimself to be in San Jose and he wasn't. A first overall pick comes in with lofty expectations directed towards him and Thornton, in certain Boston minds, wasn't living up to them.

[Prowl]

The worst GM in the league right now has to be a toss-up between Dave Nonis and John Muckler. On Nonis, I agree with Thundercleese's points, but I'm not as hard on Luongo because he's the goalie that the Canucks needed all along and while he hasn't taken a team to the play-offs, I believe that he has the talent to get them there and I think he's an elite goalie...obviously, Kipper's the best though

I thought Carter was demanding too much money, but the Canucks couldn't afford to lose him with the lack of scoring options they had and he played pretty well with the Sedins last year so they could have saved the money from matching Kesler's offer to use that to get Carter.

Muckler is terrible because he signed Gerber. Did he not see him in the play-offs last year? He was brutal and lost his job - he was always an average goalie but a three-year contract for $9 million has done him in.

The other bad GM's - Pat Quinn, Larry Pleau, Mike O'Connell etc are all unemployed and thus not eligible for my list