developing players

Thundercleese · Post by **Thundercleese** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:54 am

Just wondering if there are any tips for getting the most out of young prospects. Is it best to try to keep them in the juniors for as long as possible? If they're rated a "fringe player" currently but can improve to key or core will it hurt their development to have them on your pro roster? If they are on your pro roster does it hurt them to just sit and participate in practice or is it worse to put them on the ice?

Thanks for any advice.

Post by **timmy_t** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:02 am

It's usually best to keep them where they will get the most ice time, but at the same time they need some competition. Most north american prospects should finish their junior time, and then a year or two in the AHL. Only the super prospects like Sidney Crosby should go straight to the pro's .

Post by **Minstrel** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:07 am

The thing to keep in mind as a long-view on player development is that the majority of players enter their "peak hockey years" at around 25 or 26. So if a player is only 18 he could be currently a fringe player but given seven years he will then (hopefully) become that core player and perform at that level until age starts to catch up to him.

And yeah, you can damage a player's development by mishandling him when he's young.

Post by **E5150_ca** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:59 am

Ater reading numerous stores of killed potenial by rushing players, I always take my time in developing them. In some cases, it might have even halted there developement by keeping them in the lower leagues for too long, but slowing them down is better then ruining it all together IMO.

For instance, in my Sabres game Peter Mueller managed to get 5 or 6 awards and lead the WHL is Goals, POints, +/- and Average Rating. Most people would probably now promote him to the NHL team, But i've decided that I'm going to give him a few more months in the WHL and(thanks to a bug) move him up to Rochester (AHL) around January.

I always figured its better to have a player play first line in the lower leagues then 4th line and/or bench warmer in the higher leagues.

Systemfel · Post by **Systemfel** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:33 am

Would it be a good move to sign a prospect like Erik Johnson and then send him to the WHL?

Post by **E5150_ca** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:32 pm

I could be wrong, but I think once a player starts playing university hockey, its impossible to get him out of there until hes 21.

EDIT: Turns out I was wrong, ignore this post.

Systemfel · Post by **Systemfel** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:35 pm

E5150_ca wrote:I could be wrong, but I think once a player starts playing university hockey, its impossible to get him out of there until hes 21.

I got him out right after the draft. Now he's playing in the tough WHL instead.

munky · Post by **munky** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:07 pm

I have a few guys in my Montreal dynasty (which may or may not be fubar after the game crashed again - ARGH!) who weren't getting any ice time at all in Hamilton. I decided to send them all out on loan to an ECHL team. Ideally that would give them all ample ice time and help their development - more so than riding the pine in Hamilton.

Time will tell.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:19 am

munky wrote:...who weren't getting any ice time at all in Hamilton

This is why I always run my teams AHL affiliate (ECHL too, if there is one). In EHM 2005, I didn't do this and unless they were of Crosby/Ovechkin/Tavares calibre, it was a rubbish shoot as to how fast and how well a player developed. In EHM 2007 I run all affiliated AHL or ECHL teams. This way I get to hire good teaching coaches and assign rosters and line combos, so I control who is getting what ice time.

Does anyone develope defensive forwards or just get them as FAs? I normally trade for Sutherby & Ortmeyer and sign Dingman at the beginning of each game. They won't get you much on offense (especially with my tactics) but they can shutdown any line in the league. The biggest problem I have is Sutherby & Ortmeyer tend to be whiners and their morale is rarely above "Ok". I would like to develope their replacements internally and was wondering if anyone else had done the same. It's pretty easy to develope good offensive players by getting good coaches and giving plenty of 1st line and PP time. I haven't yet developed a top notch defensive forward yet. ANybody have any insight?

Coyote of the Sea · Post by **Coyote of the Sea** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:02 am

i leave my guys in the AHL if i don't need them (and they are able to go down to the AHL). Like i'm planning to keep Mueller with the yotes down there for a couple years (its 20 right now) since he won't get any thing more then a few minutes a game on my main team (got Lecavalier, Lombardi, and Mike Richards).

Got a question though, do you think Lisin's (at 22) developement will be stunted if i have him playing first line minutes in the NHL? he played with the Rampage last year and put up good numbers so i'm not sure if its too early or if he'll be fine with the playing time of the first line.

Post by **Tasku** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:46 am

I tend to think, as long as the player gets results in his current line / role / position, then it'll most likely help his development. If he makes 50 points playing next to a more experienced star player, there's no way it can harm him.

Post by **vilifyingforce** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:24 pm

I agree with Tasku. As long as his avgr is above 7.00 I tend to think they're developing fine where they are. If Lisin responds then let him tear it up. And developing defensive players is, I find, harder then developing offensive dynamos. In 05, I had Ryan Hillier turn out to be great (even winning a Selke) They need to be trained differently though.

Coyote of the Sea · Post by **Coyote of the Sea** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:10 pm

alright thanks, i think lisin should do fine with the great linemates he has. Right now i'm doing two-way trianing for him (in my system you do 2-way(3 ints: Shooting, Off, Def and rest medium) D Skills(3 int: Def, Off, Skate) or off skills (Off, Shooting, and skate).)

Is the two-way the best for him? in my game he's 13 checking, 14 hitting, and 15 Strength.

ron7 · Post by **ron7** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:08 am

Am I the only one who think that college hockey really kills the prospect developpement? I usually move them in CHL if a team own their right. What about you?

V4ND3RP00L · Post by **V4ND3RP00L** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:09 am

Personally I tend to go ahead and grab them out of college. The reason is because it seems like they just don't do that well as they would in the juniors.

But then again, I have changed my thought process on this whole issue. I suggest that if you are playing your game. Pick any kind of US player or someone that you know will most likely go to college. Which in any event, you can find out by viewing the information tab on his profile.

If he says that he wants to play college, then in most cases, that is where he is going to go in the long run.

Just watch him and you'll see that they don't develope fast, but they don't go slow either. Much different from the major junior clubs without a doubt, but them playing in college doesn't mean they will suck or whatever.

mtsouth · Post by **mtsouth** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:38 pm

Does anyone invite their draft picks to camp for tryout? I'm doing this with my first class. All have at least 1 year of junior hockey left. The thinking is that if I let them play in training camp, they get time with older players and get structured ice time. This also allows me to rest some of my vets from scrimmages.

Based on this thread, it appears the general consensus is to let players finish out their junior careers and then assign to an affiliate for a season or two. That is unless they have NHL caliber numbers right now, which is rare.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:17 pm

For the most part, I let these these guys finish their junior career but I still invite them to training camp. I never sign any of these guys after camp. If they're a young player I had plans on keeping, I would've already signed them. Mostly I just use my young prospects as players to train with. For 99.99999% you really just have to be patient.

helmespc · Post by **helmespc** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:56 am

What about the best prospects.... I've got a guy in my 1979-80 league who I'm pretty sure is Mario Lemieux who enters in 1984 (I've got fake names)... anyway... a guy like this is so good and he's ready to enter the league looking at his attributes... but does this hurt his overall development?

Post by **Shadd666** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:48 pm

Maybe... maybe not... There's no hard and strict rule. Very few 18 years old kids are able to jump in the big league without any impact on their devellopement. So if the guy can just barely make it to the big league as a 4th liner, your best bet is to send him in the AHL or juniors, IMO, where he'll have tons of icetime and less pressure on him, and therefore should devellop correctly. If he looks ready for a bigger role (attributes wise), have a close eye on him during training camp and exhibition games. If he still looks ready, give him a few NHL games and see how it turns. If he is having troubles, or doesn't perform as expected, send him down.

Well, if your guy is Super Mario, there should normally be no problem. But be carefull anyway. It should be disgusting to ruin such a huge talent by rushing him while he is not ready!

matt44 · Post by **matt44** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:52 pm

Hi guys,

How many "developmental" players do you have on your roster? Obviously they all count against the wap even though they are still in juniors or minor leagues.

Also, I organise my players as follows:

Players with junior season left stay there.
Aged 20-21 - CHL
Aged 21-23 - ECHL
Aged 23 + AHL

How long should you leave a player before deciding he won't develop enough? 25?

There was already a topic about player development. I've merged this new thread into that one. - B72

ie99jro · Post by **ie99jro** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:22 pm

What is the normal development in one year for a prospect (10-15 ability points/year or what)? I guess it depends on the training/coaches/training facility etc maybe even the potential/ability diffrence big=bigger change?

Have any of you guys actualy checked/tested what has most impact on the development, how big impact has the avg rating/ice time/etc on the development? If you start a game a and train him and let him play on the 1st or 2nd line and gets lots of ice time and mange to get a good 7-7,5 avg rating does he increase more than if you start a new game and use same coaches and play him on 3rd line and he gets a 6,5 avg and 8-10 min a game. How big diffrence does it to the development, has anyone had the time to check it out?

selne · Post by **selne** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:18 pm

The avarage rating is really important for prospect development.
If a young player gets ratings below 6 it would be better to send him to AHL or back to juniors .

I Will never forget what i experienced with the regen of Peter Forsberg:
He started to play in the swedish elite league when he was 16 years old.
This guy had good physical and mental attributes but his technical attributes were below avarage.
He played 2 years in the elite league and his avarage ratings were:
1st season - 5.5 avr.
2nd season - 5.6 avr.
All my scouts said he was a superb prospect and he was ranked top five in the iss rakings.
I drafted him 3rd overall and tried to sign him but he stayed in the elite league for two other sesons.
In the 3rd and 4th season he had a 5.9 avarage rating.
His technical attributes were still pretty shetty.
I signed him when he was 20 years old and tried everything to teach him techniques but failed.
Opened the save game editor to take a look at him.
On the right side there was this huge potential (195 if i remember correctly).
Then i saw his ability on the left and it broke my heart.
He retired at the age of 29 and ended up with an ability of 55!.
It took me a long time to make it up with the game.

ie99jro · Post by **ie99jro** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:10 pm

I don't get this game, I am used to FM and everything makes sens there but with this game nothing does. I just checked my saved game with the editor and saw that one of my prospect hade got a 5 point bost in his ability in the editor but I have not seen any changes at all in the game, his numbers are the same as the star of the season, what is this. I had to check it again if I missed something so I gave another guy a 5 point up jump in ability to look for some change...but no! Can someone explain this to me! Doesn't the ability matter, is it only the nubers? I have other guys when the change as been normal, ability up some numbers up, but never when I tested myself does the skills increase, how does this development thing work in the game, does anybody know?

I have seen numbers go up and down (small variations) on many players but I belive that is mostly training impact.

But what I don´t get is the total development phase for the prospects.

MKoivuFan · Post by **MKoivuFan** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:23 am

with all you guys talking about major juniors and such this developing player thing got me thinking... when it comes to running major junior teams since whl the players have to wait till their 16 before they can play but in the OHL they can play right out of their draft yr... I was thinking if my 4 best players or what ever out of camp make my OHL roster and i had the idea of say the best goalie prospect the 2 top 2 dman prospects and 1 lw 1c and 1rw all send those 6 players down to my devleopment club jr a or junior b is it better to let all of the prospects that dont make my club spend a yr with their minor junior teams outside of OHL or should i do what i said with the top 6 try out players send them down to my development club?

MaddoxBT · Post by **MaddoxBT** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:11 am

Wow, so many theories on this, when really you're all making it out to be a lot more complicated than it is.

There's an att that tells you how well a player is going to develop. If it's high, he's going to develop to his PA. If it's not, he's not. Give him as much PT as you can and have the best coaches you can get.

This let him stay in junior until he's 20, then two years in the AHL nonsense is a waste of time and effort.

developing players

developing players

Player Development.